[00:00:00] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I'm lucky enough to be joined by Brandon Barnum, CEO of HOA. com. he's closed 500 million in mortgages, which I saw was pretty cool. He's author of Raving Referrals. He's got a bunch of books, out and coming out. Brandon, thanks for joining me today, buddy.

[00:00:16] Brandon: Oh, thanks, Jay. Happy to be here.

[00:00:18] Jay: where are you based out of?

[00:00:19] Brandon: Phoenix, Arizona.

[00:00:20] Jay: How hot is it there right now?

[00:00:23] Brandon: Yesterday, I got in my car and it said 120.

[00:00:27] Jay: Wow.

[00:00:28] Brandon: It's the dry heat. 

[00:00:29] Jay: the dry heat, I knew it was coming.

does the dry heat matter at 120? 

[00:00:34] Brandon: You know, anything above 100 is hot. Let's just be real. So, 120 is pretty hot. It's like going in a sauna, honestly. But, I love going in a sauna. It feels fantastic. I'm actually cold. I went to dinner two nights ago. We're in a restaurant. The A. C. was on. And I'm like, I gotta go get my freaking jacket because it's freezing in here.

[00:00:51] Jay: You're getting acclimated all right Well, tell me where you grew up and did that have any kind of bearing in your entrepreneurial journey? I've seen you've founded a bunch of things you're a CEO of a bunch of things. What impact did that have along the way?

[00:01:02] Brandon: You know, I grew up poor and that's the reality is I was money hungry. I grew up, my mom decided after she divorced my dad when I was four, that she was a hippie lesbian back in the seventies and money never really mattered to her. So we, you know, we lived on food stamps and I got free lunch and you know, the WIC program and all that stuff.

So I grew up not really having much money in my life and I was always drawn to it. Like my hero growing up was Alex P Keaton on family ties and you're probably too young to even 

[00:01:30] Jay: No, I know 

[00:01:31] Brandon: All right. All right. Cool. So, you know, budding entrepreneur and a guy that kind of different in his family because he was out there to make money and make a difference.

So anyway, I've just always been that way. And I honestly went to school, Portland State University, found out in college, you don't have to be married to have a kid. And at the age of 22, I had my first son, Sebastian, and at the age of 24, I had full custody and I was a single dad. So at that point I was only making 20 grand a year working as a marketing director for an estate planning law firm.

And I knew I had to make a change cause I started bouncing my mortgage checks. I had already bought a house but couldn't afford to pay that and daycare. And so I made a change, got in the mortgage business. And with 18 months I found a mentor that taught me the art and science of raving referrals and 18 months I took my income 10 X.

From 20, 000 a year to 200, 000 a year. And so now that's what I'm on a mission to teach is how to do that for your business.

[00:02:27] Jay: We have a very similar origin story. I had a kid in college at

19, in full custody by the time he was around three or four years old. So,

you know, a little bit of a common thread there, you know, and it's

people always ask, you know, well, how do you do it? And you just, I think what I gathered out of what you just said is there's no options, right?

you just have to do it.

[00:02:46] Brandon: One day at a time is how you do it, man. You do the best you can one day at a time.

[00:02:52] Jay: That's it. Well, I love that story. So what was the first business you actually tried to start?

[00:02:57] Brandon: You know, it's funny you asked that. My really first business was in the mortgage space. So I started out as a residential mortgage loan officer for a bank. I quickly realized I wanted to work for a brokerage so that I wasn't constrained by that bank's programs and rates and fees. And so I found somebody to go work for.

And so I had. Full options. And then I had somebody approached me and said, Hey man, you're crushing it. Let's go start a company together. If you open it, I'll run it. And so we started integrity lending back in 2002.

[00:03:31] Jay: Okay, and just to kind of tie back and this is a something new that I'm going to start trying is throwing out some concepts and just seeing what you think. the great Elsa Kramer has a podcast I was on and she has a great, she has a bunch of a deck of cards and she has just words on it. She writes and then during the show, she asks you questions.

So, but I am curious, what does money mean to you today?

[00:03:53] Brandon: Money means freedom. You know, the reality is you can do a lot when you have money and you can't do as much when you don't. So to me, it's not only The freedom of time, but energy like spiritually in your soul, it just feels different when you have abundance in your life and financial flow. When you don't have money, you're stressed out, worried, and things don't go so well.

So to me, money is freedom.

[00:04:17] Jay: And how have you bought your time back over these, the course of your career?

[00:04:22] Brandon: Well, I've been self employed really for 27 years. So I own my time. Nobody tells me what to do. I don't do anything I don't want to do. And I haven't for a long time. Over that 27 years, there was one time. where I accepted a CEO role for another company and I built out their AI and their API about four years ago cause I believed in the product and I wanted to take it around the world.

but with the exception that 10 months, that was really tough working for somebody else that was second guessing every Decision I was making. I'm like, no, man, I need to go be my own boss again. So I own my time. Nobody tells me what to do except for my wife, of course, but the exception of that

[00:05:00] Jay: of course.

[00:05:02] Brandon: Doesn't tell me she just invites me to explore other options

[00:05:05] Jay: that's a great way to put it, and I think my wife would fully agree with that. she doesn't own anything, she just makes very pointed suggestions.

[00:05:12] Brandon: There you go

so, or observations, right?

[00:05:15] Jay: Yeah, observations is probably even a better way to put it.

there's no insinuations there, so yes, just observations.

[00:05:21] Brandon: Wait, I think she's leading the witness, but that's okay. 

[00:05:24] Jay: yeah, you know, look, we'll get ourselves in trouble here. do you use assistants? Do you use anybody to kind of help organize your day and your time?

[00:05:33] Brandon: Yeah. I mean, I got 25 people on the team at HOA. com. So again, part of the reason I don't do what I don't want to do is because I got people that'll do what I don't want to do. So yes, I've got virtual assistants over in the Philippines. I've got a designer in Sri Lanka. I've got people here in the U S that like, honestly, I've got somebody that books my podcast appearances.

I do three to five of these a week and I've got somebody else that handles all the logistics. So I get to show up and share and do what I love doing best, which is kind of, evangelizing and inspiring and helping people to see another way to live life and hopefully a better way. So that's. I've got a lot of people to help, 

[00:06:10] Jay: I love that. I'm a huge delegation evangelist.

[00:06:15] Brandon: It's who, not how. I teach this to entrepreneurs all the time. You know, so often as entrepreneurs, we think we've got to do everything. And so we're thinking, how do I get this done? Start thinking, who can help me get this done? Who would be amazing at this task that drains my energy where it will fire them up?

Who, not how.

[00:06:34] Jay: I love that. How did you start to identify the right people to take things off your plate?

[00:06:41] Brandon: You know, part of it is, I use a personality system called Bank Code. I mean, this really has made a huge difference to my life. The book that it comes from is Why They Buy. I told you I was the CEO of a tech company. This is the company I helped them start, Code Breaker Technologies. And it's a personality system, DISC or Myers Briggs or any of the others.

But the beauty is, it works in the real world because for each of the codes, there's actually cards. And so I carry these cards with me when I do an event and I just say, Hey, you want to see a magic trick? And then I hand the person the cards. I ask them to sort them in order of what's most like them to least like them because it'll help me serve them better and save us both time.

And so really, it's personality science. That's the first level. Now, from there, once we've kind of filtered out and found people that match the personality type of the position that we're looking to fill, then we have other metrics and tools that we use. We like Harrison assessments is really good to identify.

Is their personality right for the position? So we start with just generally and then we really dig into identifying the right person for the role.

[00:07:51] Jay: Love that. You said it took you 10 years to write your first book. Tell me a little more about that. Why did it take you 10 years?

[00:07:58] Brandon: Yeah, well, you know, it started off, I, back in 2012, I was running a company called trustedteam. com and basically we had a platform to help you build your referral partnerships. The left side of your profile was like LinkedIn and the right side was your trusted team. So from a mortgage business. I have my realtors, insurance agent, financial advisors, and all the home service pros, right?

So I was running that company, I started to write Raving Referrals, really to help the people that were in the network. But writing is tough, like unless you're a gifted writer, it took me a long time, so I started to write the book. I wrote sort of white papers that ended up as being chapters or you know, different blogs.

And I had somebody I was going to co author it with and then that kind of sputtered out. And so I put the book on the shelf for a number of years until this thing called COVID rolled around. And we had, we'd started HOA. com and I'm like, I need to give these people the blueprint. of how they build their business by referral.

And so we actually created a little booklet, too, called the Referral Partner Blueprint that we give our people just so they can carry it with them and know what to do and what to say. But it was really the realization that our people need this, and I have the responsibility to take what's here, that's what's changed my life, and empower as many people as possible.

So, it took 10 years, but we finally got it done.

[00:09:22] Jay: And what's your perspective on that being a marketing tool as well for just your personal brand and for your business and everything else? I mean, that's

obviously helping people is a big part of it. And I feel like people over sell that part a little bit. I want to talk about what has it done for you?

Like what is that? You know, people are out there thinking I want to write a book. Like what has that done for you and what were you trying to have that do for you? 

[00:09:43] Brandon: It's massive. So last night we launched this Christian Business Alliance, which is like a Christian B. and I had Mark Victor Hanson, the author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, was our keynote speaker. Now, Mark sold over 500 million books.

[00:09:56] Jay: Mhm.

[00:09:59] Brandon: He's been my mentor for 19 years and he taught me, don't write a book, build a brand, but I'll tell you, the book is a brochure for your business.

And depending on what your business is, it elevates your authority. So people see you differently when you are an author, especially a bestselling author, people just treat you different. It's a status thing, right? And if you're trying to elevate yourself and separate yourself from the competition, one of the best ways to do it, is with a book.

Now, years ago, I got written about in this book called Cracking the Millionaire Code. So long before I was an author, Mark wrote about me in this book and I used to give this book to prospects and clients and I would put my business card on the page, what is it? 42 here, right? And so I would give them the book with my business card on that page and say, here, I'd love to give you this gift.

And inevitably they would see that profile. So again, it would boost the credibility. Now, since writing my own book, what it does is now I get hired to speak. So, I was sharing with you before the show, I've got a speaking gig next month where a group of dentists, because the second book is called Raving Referrals for Dentists, one of the industries we serve.

So I've got a group of dentists that is paying me, paying my flight, my hotel, and hiring me to come speak to an audience of 75 dentists for six hours. Now all of those dentists are going to be prospects for HOA. com. So I'm getting paid to present to an audience of my perfect prospects or what you say the I D C I think that's ideal.

client profile, is that what you're using? 

[00:11:32] Jay: Yep. 

[00:11:33] Brandon: Yep. I C P. so it is exactly that. When you have a book, it elevates your status. I get paid to speak and or asked to speak, and I'm happy to do that because when you can speak in front of your perfect prospects and a position like this, there's nothing like it.

[00:11:50] Jay: I'm in the software testing space, right? That's an interesting space to be in. It's not overly crowded in the American kind of footprint that's very big in Ukraine and India and a bunch of other places.

so I would love to do kind of that same path and I'm further back on the journey than you are. so I may have to pick your brain on some of just how to package that. In a way that makes sense for an audience going forward, but we won't take everybody's time for that But 

[00:12:18] Brandon: here, let me just give you one quick thing, Jay. I'd say, look, if you want to write a book, start with a blog. If you think about a table of contents, if you had 12 chapters, for example, each of those chapters is, in essence, a blog, right? But if you just chunk it down into one at a time, and just have your overall vision for what it's going to look like when it's done, what is the message that you want to bring to the market?

What are the points of wisdom that, you know, if somebody could pull out from you? The key messages, the expertise is going to make the biggest difference for your audience and attract people to you. What are those 10, 12 points? Write a blog for each of them. I mean, dude, nowadays you can kind of cheat.

There's chat GPT and other AI tools that you can have it started. So instead of a blank page, but the other thing that I teach people to do is instead of write it, speak it. Right? Do it like a webinar. If you were going to outline it, so you've got your twelve points, for example, one for each of the chapters, then within that chapter maybe you've got three main points that you want to teach.

Go put on a webinar where you record it, transcribe it, then have that edited down into each chapter. It can be a lot easier than the way I did it, but unfortunately I learned that after the fact.

[00:13:31] Jay: Well now you can teach people how to do it the right way. So I love that So what were some of the things that held you back initially from starting HOA comm it seems like a great I mean if you look at the site and I Encourage people to go do that. It's a great site in general. It looks, it's very clean.

It's very tight. It's got, you know, the messaging is great. It's got the, just the tech looks solid. what were some of the things that held you back initially from kicking that off?

[00:13:54] Brandon: You know, this is my 10th platform that I've built over 27 years. So I've been doing tech for a while. So thank you for the compliment. I appreciate that. Especially coming from an expert like you in the software space. We didn't start out as HOA. com, right? We didn't have that domain. We started out as the homeowneralliance.

com with a mission of connecting homeowners to professionals they can trust now. that we have the HOA. com domain, we're on a different mission. We're actually out to revolutionize the homeowner association space. And then from that position, we connect homeowners to professionals they can trust. So what we're building is like Nextdoor meets Angie's List meets Zillow.

So it's a massive project and platform. But we didn't start out with the vision that we have now. So here's one of the things. When you're starting your business, cast your vision, go to market with what can generate cash flow quickly. Cash flow is king. Test your product. Test your service. Find out if there's a market fit where people are willing to pay for your idea.

And then, you know, that, you know, MVP as well as anybody, right? You got to get that minimal viable product out in the market. Test what you've got, get some early adapters, what we call first followers that say, Hey, this is cool. Or man, this thing sucks. Okay. Well, what would make it better? Ask people, how would you rate this?

How important is this to your business? Scale of one to 10? Oh, this is an eight. What would make it a 10? You've got to get that market feedback. So that you refine the product because the vision doesn't happen overnight. Like, we started this company four years ago and I feel like just in the last six months, we really know who we want to be when we grow up.

But that took time and it took a lot of conversation and investment, not only in the tech, but the marketing, the positioning, the market research. So get in the game because if you don't get started, you'll never get going.

[00:15:45] Jay: Market research is such an interesting thing because it's so integral, but it seems so far away sometimes. How do you suggest people Do those things you just said how do you? Start to test the waters in very, you know concrete ways. Like how do you find those people? How do you ask those questions and I mean because it even for products that I want to spin up, you know There's other that is always and eventually you figure it out.

But from your experience How do you break that down and start to go? All right market research is like this 100 billion dollar industry.

I don't need I don't need to go buy something that's gonna cost me millions of dollars How do I go out and do my own market research for this thing? I want to start

[00:16:25] Brandon: You know, it's funny, Jay. It's a great question, man. I've started two technology companies with nothing PowerPoint. In fact, one of them, I had an idea and I said, okay, I'm going to. put this idea in a presentation form and then I'm going to go talk to some people in the industry that I'm looking to pay me and see what the response is.

And I had this one company called Divorce Shield, right? And I really came on board to help the guy that had created the concept and he had created kind of an ebook for people that were going for divorce. going through divorce, right? Cause there's no resource of when you go through divorce. Now you've got Google and you can ask for a guide and all that.

But back then there wasn't. And so what I did is I went to a realist, a broker, real estate broker and owner of a real estate brokerage. And I said, Hey, here's the idea. What do you think about this? And I walked out of that meeting. Well, it took a few meetings, but walked out with 30 days later with a contract for 165, 000.

And that provided the seed capital to actually build the technology. So start with your vision, put it in a PowerPoint form. I started another company where same thing. We brought a bunch of our Perfect prospects into a room presented them with here's what we're going to build. How would you like to be one of the first?

And if you are, we're going to sell you a charter membership where you'll pay one time and you'll have lifetime access to this software platform. And so, you know, you can test it without even building the tech quite frankly.

Well, how did you sorry that's great. I love that. How did you find those prospects to get and I want to get very Specific here. How do you how did you find those prospects that you thought would be good? For that business and get them in a room. It's Raving Referrals. It's all about asking people who you know, and then this is Mark Victor Hanson's book ask, right? This is what he taught about last night. You've got to ask for help. A lot of people are hesitant because they feel like they're supposed to know it all and they don't want to, you know, belittle themselves or feel like.

People are going to perceive them as then they don't know what they're talking about. Man, get over yourself. You've got to ask for help. If you want to succeed, if you want to win, it takes a village. It takes a tribe. It's not just about you. So what I did is I said, Hey, here's this idea. Here's what we're thinking of doing.

Who do you know that you think would be a perfect fit for this? And I had people introduce me. Now, the secret to our success, like at HOA. com and my last platform was called Refer. com, we built that to 5 million members. Part of the reason we do that is we built virality into the model. At HOA. com, when people come on board, the first thing we do is we help them formalize their referral partnerships.

So, a realtor comes on board, we say, who are the people that you give the most referrals to? Who are the people that you receive the most referrals from? And who do you know, like, and trust that also serves homeowners that you'd like to partner with and cross promote? They give us a list of 10, 20, 50 names, and then we...

Invite those people to join them as on their trusted team and be part of the platform, right? So we've actually built virality and a referral engine into the software and really the overall business strategy. Go ask and find people that know the people that you want. Put them in a room. you can do it in social media these days.

I mean, I'm telling you stories from before Facebook really was a big thing, but nowadays you can put out a call to action. You can do a meet up and say, Hey. We're going to have this meeting on this date. Here's what we're going to talk about. Post it in some groups on social media and again, ask for help.

Find people that are influencers. Ask for podcasts hosts to say, here's what I'm doing and we'd love to get you involved and then offer people partnership. I mean, sometimes you can either pay people in a commission, an affiliate fee, or you may need to bring somebody on as a partner in your business.

What I suggest though is that you create a vesting plan where they earn equity over time and with performance. Like I just hired a new Chief Revenue Officer and he'll vest over four years, but essentially to get his 5 percent in our company, he needs to take us to a billion dollar valuation.

[00:20:37] Jay: Wow. So much actionable advice in there. Love that. How do you use... So social media is a mess. Right? It is just a tangled web of just good, bad, awesome, terrible, just everything. How do you use social media personally and with your business?

[00:20:55] Brandon: What's funny Jay is I don't personally I'm never on social media myself. I don't have time for that man I'm running the company. So I have a team that does it for me I have a team that posts and they interact and they do social selling and all that stuff If you see something post on me, I'm just telling you right now.

I didn't write it I didn't post it because I don't do that. I don't really go on Facebook I look at LinkedIn more than anything else just for me. That's where I work and where I play because I'm looking for executives of top national companies that are in our industries. but for me, I don't play in social.

I have teams that do that because that's not the highest and best use of my time. There's people that focus on those one on one, but you can get a lot of leverage. The beauty is. Social media is free, right? You can find and access your perfect prospect, your ideal clients pretty easily these days. You just have to have a compelling offer and focus on serving.

[00:21:52] Jay: Love it. If you had to start HOA. com over again today, maybe not, what would you do, different question, but what would be step one for you? and you kind of maybe mentioned it, but I mean, if there was something different that you've learned along the way, what would you do if you had to start it over again tomorrow?

[00:22:09] Brandon: Yeah, that's a great question, man. I would definitely, I mean, obviously knowing what I know now, I know what the vision looks like. When we started off, it was completely different. We actually started this as a real estate referral company, and we were generating home buyers using an IDX website, buying, Google, AdWords and getting traffic to our site and we'd attract people that were looking to buy.

We refer them over to real estate agents and we'd earn the commission. So that's how we started the company. And we've pivoted three times since then to get where we are now. So knowing what I now know, I would build what we're building here. But I think To your question and your audience is how do you get started with something like this?

Right? And it goes back to what I said before, clarify your vision and your offer. Get clear on what's the value that you're offering to people. How are you going to impact them? How are you going to help them live better lives, make more money, save time, look better, feel better, whatever it is that your product or service does.

Get crystal clear on that. And then ask for help. Maybe you say, Hey, I've got this idea and I'm looking for some counsel, looking for some advice. And I wonder if I could run it by you and see what you think when you approach even your ideal client profile. And you say, Hey, don't go to them trying to sell them.

Say, Hey, I'm, I'd love to run this by you and see what you think. And if you may know somebody that might be a fit, don't target them. But if they are a fit and they love what you do, they're going to say at the end of that presentation. You know, I'm going to introduce you to Charlie and to Cindy, but I'd love to do this too, right?

So start there. Get clear on your vision, your offer, the impact, and then share it with people. Ask them for advice, and through that process, you're going to pick up prospects and clients.

[00:24:02] Jay: How do you do that without scaring people off thinking you're pitching at them?

[00:24:06] Brandon: getting pitched at a million times a day

you got to start with people you know. No, I don't do anything cold. That's just me. Like my success is all relationships. And this is something I think the younger generations are missing these days, right? I've got people that I've been in business with now for 20 years. And at first it was tough building those relationships.

As soon as I get off of this call, I've got like a hundred people that I need to reach out to that were at my event last night, thank them for coming. And essentially. Invest in those relationships, but relationships with influencers. I focus on people that have influence. Maybe like I had a woman from Colorado Springs.

She's a big social media influencer. She's got 80, 000 followers. She flew down just for yesterday, right? So I've already texted her this morning and I'm setting up next steps with her. So be intentional about who you're investing. time with. But if you don't know, start with the people you know. And if you don't know who you want to know, then ask the people that you know who they know.

[00:25:10] Jay: Right. I like that.

[00:25:12] Brandon: If you go cold, people have their guard up. Here's the thing about referrals is 90 percent of people say they trust recommendations. From people they know. The trust factor is higher. If, in B2B sales, 83 percent of B2B sales start with a referral. It's hard to make a B2B sale if you don't have a champion, an advocate that's saying, Oh man, you gotta meet Jay.

He's amazing. He's gonna take care of you. He's gonna create a custom solution that's gonna fit for you. Right. Expert in the field. Great guy. You're going to love him. Now, when I get introduced to Jay, I'm like, okay, Jay, I heard good things about you. Right? So the trust factor is higher from the get go. If you're cold marketing, reaching out to strangers that you don't know, man, that's a tough task and that's a long slog.

So I don't work that way. I ask people I know who they know and they open the doors and it's just awesome.

[00:26:09] Jay: I love it. Alright, let's switch gears a little bit. you have a million things going on. we all want to be around for as long as possible. What are three health tips that you're doing or striving to do, to keep yourself tuned up as long as possible?

[00:26:23] Brandon: Yeah. So Keto is good. I don't do it all the time, but anytime I see the scale that's going the wrong way, I go back to Keto and focus on, and you know, I learned it as Atkins years before, but cutting the carbs, that's a huge one. sugar is what I love, quite frankly. Like I could just have a sugar diet 

[00:26:41] Jay: me too, brother. 

[00:26:44] Brandon: so I got to cut the sugar, right? So that's number one. the other thing is managing your internal state. I think so much of our physical being is tied to our spiritual being. Okay, so for me, I mean, I'm in prayer and meditation. I wake up every morning. I lay in bed in a state of gratitude, being thankful for all of the amazing gifts that I've been given and thankful that I get to play another day, quite frankly, right?

So staying in gratitude. I listen to, vibrational frequencies. I'm a Christian, so I listen to a ton of praise and worship music, you know, just connecting to God helps me feel good inside and maintaining that emotional state reduces stress. I choose faith over fear and that is a massive benefit to my overall physical state.

And then drinking lots of water is huge too.

[00:27:35] Jay: Wow. Alright, mystery question.

[00:27:38] Brandon: All right.

[00:27:39] Jay: Non business related.

[00:27:40] Brandon: Okay.

[00:27:41] Jay: If you could do anything on Earth, and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:27:46] Brandon: Fly

[00:27:47] Jay: Oh, beautiful.

[00:27:49] Brandon: like just not neo state. Like, 

[00:27:51] Jay: See, alright, that's so funny you said that, because somebody else said that, and it was the first time I'd ever heard it. so you're the second person who said, fly with just your arms.

So 

[00:27:59] Brandon: yeah. So we have this 

[00:28:00] Jay: great one. 

[00:28:01] Brandon: go ahead. 

[00:28:02] Jay: That's a great, I was going to say, that's a great one. That's a, that's my, that's one of my favorites.

[00:28:06] Brandon: I'm the chairman for the Champions Institute. It's a sales and coaching sales and leadership coaching and training company. And one of the things that we do is we help people select their champion avatar. Right. If you could be anybody that you wanted to be, who would it be? So that if you're going into a big meeting and you're feeling a little anxious, we teach them to get into a champion state, right?

Well, so we have everybody choose their champion avatar. For me, I am Neo. Why am I Neo? Because Neo can stop bullets with his mind. He can fly through the air. He can do anything he wants. And I believe it's that belief in what's possible that drives us forward and helps you achieve anything you want that in prayer and connection to God in my world.

[00:28:50] Jay: Fantastic. Brandon, you are... An impressive individual. Thank you for giving me some of your time today, brother. where can people find you? Where can they find, HOA. com, even though it's pretty self explanatory, if they want to reach

[00:29:02] Brandon: That's the mystery question. 

[00:29:03] Jay: a mystery question. Where do they find HOA. com?

[00:29:07] Brandon: No, for me personally, you can go to brandonbarnum. com. That's kind of got a bunch of my links. So, you know, those people want to book me on a podcast like this, you can find that there's a calendar link as well, and some links to like the bank code assessment, the personality system. People can take their bank code exam for free to quiz.

It takes about 90 seconds and they get a report with who they are, which is fascinating. you can also take the referral score quiz. This is something I recommend. It takes less than two minutes. You rate yourself on the top 10 referral best practices and instantly you'll know where the gaps are. So just go to BrandonBarnum.

com and you'll find all that stuff.

[00:29:44] Jay: All right. Love it. Well, I hope you stay cool out there. You don't fry, this summer. I mean, we're only in July, man. It's 120. I don't know what August holds for us, but, you've been awesome, Brandon. Thank you for being on, brother. Have a good rest of your week. All right.

[00:29:56] Brandon: My pleasure, Jay. Thanks for having me.

[00:29:57] Jay: Thanks, man.