The First Customer - Building a brand by betting on yourself with the Hey Jay Founder Jasmin Alić

[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. We have a very special guest today. I was just talking to Jay before we got on. I do not chase people around for the podcast. I don't typically even ask more than once. Jay, I've probably asked about 400 times. we've gone back and forth and I cannot tell you how excited I am today, man.

You're a LinkedIn celebrity. you know, you figured something out. So, Jasmin Alic, we're going to go with, Jay for now, just for my, tiny brain to, to work with, but founder of HeyJay, LinkedIn aficionado.

[00:00:58] Jasmin: I'm good. 

[00:00:59] Jay: up, brother? How are 

[00:00:59] Jasmin: it going? And thank you for that intro. Was it 400 times though? Really? You're making me sound like I'm Kanye West or somebody.

[00:01:06] Jay: I mean,no, we're not gonna go. We won't go there.

but I think it was,

let's say a couple dozen maybe, but you know, you're worth it brother. I appreciate you taking some time out. so where are you from? You don't have a very strong accent. I thought I was going to get on here and hear, you know, a real hard, you know,

[00:01:27] Jasmin: I'm from Bosnia originally, and right now I'm in Bosnia, actually in the room that I've grown up in. This is my childhood bedroom. And I've, yeah,the accent thing is just really a product, a byproduct of me listening to too much us hip hop growing up. And I also was a rapper in my previous career.

can talk about that. Yeah.

[00:01:49] Jay: Wow. Dude, what you just get cooler, as this goes on. So did you have any entrepreneurial, you know, influence when you were growing up? Was there people in your

life 

[00:01:56] Jasmin: man, not at all. I was like, my dream was to be a teacher first off. Okay. Let me backtrack. My dream was to be a rapper since I was growing up back then, like think early nineties, and this was, I don't know how much you were the listeners know, but just for context, Bosnia was in a war, like a huge war for four or five years.

And I was, Child of war, basically, I grew up in war and we didn't have much like we literally didn't have much the first bit of tech slash Modernization that I remember was the satellite TV like that giant little fish thingy or that space Ring, whatever it was called that you hang outside your window and then you could get all these u.

s Channels the German channels and whatever And that was a time when I learned about Tupac, about Biggie, about later on, you know, Eminem, 50 Cent, and all the American superstars. And I fell in love with it. I was just in love with U. S. hip hop since day one, and my first day of, primary school English class.

I was fourth grade.I could already speak English and it was the craziest thing ever just because I picked it up from TV and specifically from hip hop songs and I picked up those weird accents like to this day. I can't for the life of me. Like, I can say it now because I know what it is. I can't say police in a very natural conversation.

I have to say police. Because that's how the rappers pronounced it. Right. Sothat's where it comes from.

that's. That is wild. Now, did other people have an accent? I mean, did they, did anybody else do this that you were doing? were they picking up American from media and everything else? Was it Oh, yeah, no, a lot of kids 

[00:03:43] Jay: you stand out a little 

[00:03:43] Jasmin: you know, my generation, we've all learned foreign languages in general, not just English, German as well, Spanish as well, like a lot of Spanish telenovelas. you know, those TV shows, we picked up a lot of foreign languages just through TV, because we didn't have internet back then we didn't have computers even.

And then when we, I remember I got my first computer in 99, it was like a Windows 95, no, Windows 98 immediately. I was playing Recoil, the game. I don't know if you remember that one. Yeah, that was my, that was actually my first memory of owning a computer and doing something where I felt like I was doing something smart on a computer.

It wasn't Microsoft Word or Excel or any of that. It was playing Recoil on a computer that was hella slow back then. But back then, hey, it was the best thing around. And then came the internets, you know, and all of it. So yeah, I mean, we were just learners.

[00:04:38] Jay: So tell me about being a rapper. Like, how did you, I mean, how did you go from like, How'd you carry this torch? I mean, it just seems like such a bizarre

[00:04:46] Jasmin: It's unusual 

[00:04:47] Jay: I mean, just a, a cool story. it's unusual. I usually were unusual, not bizarre. I think bizarre makes you sound negative, but I think it's a very cool thing to like, learn from another country's entertainment source.

You don't hear that every day. I mean, so how did you continue that, you know, to an actual profession or

[00:05:06] Jasmin: for me writing was always the number one thing that I was doing and to a certain extent I didn't even realize it. Like as I was doing it I didn't realize it. After I quit music I didn't realize that writing was the number one thing.I then moved into teaching and I was, you know, writing all the time still.

I was writing articles on the side, I was writing blogs and whatever. And then when it came time for me to, you know, Leave the education space because I really did leave like at the pinnacle.I had just won an international award for my teaching work and it was the most amazing thing ever. And I won it in May and I quit my job in June.

I legitimately left the school where I was at. I had a really good position, but I just did not see to see a future. one of my best buddies today, I met him that year on 2015, 2016, 2015, 16. And we had a talk, he was doing an audit of my school back then. Cause he, he's from the States and he was doing an audit back then.

And I had a conversation with him about the education, you know, industry and the future there. And you know, when someone, Jay, like when someone asks you that question, where do you see yourself in five years? I just had an epiphany, man. Cause I understood that. Me, the way I worked, like I was just, I can, this might sound like weird for me to say it, pompous, but I knew I was far ahead thinking wise than the industry was like the education space was then the current laws and whatever were.

I was just thinking so far ahead. I was innovative in my approach. I knew how to keep the students engaged in very unique ways. And I never paid attention to the books, like what the actual books states determined books were telling us to do. I was just like, this is too easy. This is just like, I'm making you dumber.

I'm not making you smarter guys. Like I would actually tell this to my students and I would show them that we can cover all of it in five minutes. And we would, and then we would do something else like something extra. And we would go out on these state fairs and competitions and even international competitions, essay writing, what was it?

debates, public speaking and all that. We would crush everybody just in one year at that one school. I remember we won like 200 plus medals. And a lot of those were gold medals, like not just locally, but internationally. Just because I knew I was doing something special. I loved my job. Like I was so passionate about it, about teaching.

I really was, but I understood because I was so passionate and because I was looking so far ahead.that conversation I have with my buddy then was a wake up call and I understood that the industry, the education world wasn't going anywhere. I would still be quite literally in the same exact position, same exact place in 5 years time and someone who was such a forward thinker.

I couldn't let that happen. So what I did was just quit. And I was just like, I can't do this. I'm destroying myself for the job that I love, but it's just going to be the same five, 10 years from now, it's just going to be the same quite literally. I mean, and it really is the same to this day. Nothing has changed.

The education needs a, you know, the education world needs a huge reform around the world. not just, you know, where I was working. So at that point I had to figure out what my next step was going to be. Ended up, you know, starting. Getting into the freelancing world, Upwork, literally it was Upwork just registered over there and I started writing articles because I had already, you know, I had the experience with articles and I looked up some jobs.

And the first ones I got were, you know, article writing and blog writing. But then this weird words kept popping up and I had no idea what it meant, Jay. I literally had no idea what it meant. The word was copywriting. I had no clue what it meant. I had never heard the word copywriting up until that point.

And I was just ignoring it because I kept thinking, you know, I don't know how to do this. I don't even know what it is. And I kept ignoring it for months and I just stuck to the content writing of the world, the articles and the blogs. And then one day I'm just like, wait a second, why are all these copywriting jobs so much better paid?

Then, you know, the articles and the blog writing jobs. And I looked it up, I googled it. And then the weirdest, then the bizarre thing happened. We can use the word in this case. Then, what I got as far as Google results were writing ads, writing social media posts, writing websites, PR, emails. And I was like, wait a damn minute.

I've been doing this for five years for my own rap career. Like I was literally doing this for myself and I'm like, I already have experience in all of these. That's what it's called. Copywriting, not something else. And I was just like, I know how to do all these things already. So I started applying to jobs that I obviously wasn't fully equipped, you know, for, and, I started applying and I got a few jobs.

I got a few gigs at the very beginning. I did well, got some testimonials, then those testimonials got me some new referrals and so, so on and so forth. Then fast forward, we're here. So I'm going to skip the bigger part.

[00:10:22] Jay: I mean, but that is the story. No, that is the story though. I mean, that's the,

[00:10:25] Jasmin: It's all writing though. It's all writing.

[00:10:28] Jay: it's,it is all writing, but it's, it's so interesting. I mean, my, I do software testing and I did the start on Upwork and I built my profile and I got some testimonials and I flipped that into a, and it's, I feel like that's such a doable thing that so many people can do. that they just don't know. Like you said, you didn't know what copywriting was. You didn't know why that was getting paid so much money. You didn't know that could be like this new whole new thing. And I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. Cause I get to hear other people that have the same story.

And like, I love sharing that with other people and saying, and I consult my, consider myself a consulting evangelist, right? I'm like, just go try it. Like you have something in your experience that you can do that somebody's going to pay you for. It's not a nine to five job, you know, it's freelancing, it's whatever.

But then you get some testimonials, you parlay that into a, the next gig and the next gig and the next gig, and then, and all of a sudden you're an expert. Right. And I think,I heard a lot of that in the story you just told. So, tell me about, Hey Jay, I mean, where, so that's kind of the evolution of you as a copywriter, right?

You kind of get to the. It's a big show. And you go, Oh, wait, now I can actually be a business right now. I can do this on my own and get paid for it under my own brand and not be just a copywriter, not just a freelancer and whatever I am. Hey Jay, where, tell me about like kind of the moment where that clicked and you're like,

now it's business time. 

[00:11:44] Jasmin: Hey J came about. Was when I finally got my second big client, like when I say big, I mean, you know, fortune 500 big when I got the first one, it was really just a moment of, oh, they were looking for someone and they just happened to stumble upon my name and my profile and Upwork mind you, all the fortune 500 I've worked with have been through Upwork to this day.

So that's kind of like a wild thing to say. And people still to this day are like raising their eyebrows when they hear that, like Upwork really of all places. I'm like, yeah, it's that good. At least it has been good to me. so when I got the first one, I was like, yeah, it might've been a fluke. Will I ever get another one?

Like, who knows? And I kept getting, you know, other clients that weren't a fortune 500 clients, let's call them of their clients, you know, and when I got the second one. I actually, when I got the offer, I declined it just because, genuinely, Jay, I was, I felt like I was not equipped, not skilled enough, not ready enough in my career to accept that job.

They needed someone to write copy for them and to strategize messaging for them in about 30 markets. So that's tens of millions of customers, and they needed someone to take over all of that and to help them rebrand. And I was just like, I'm not ready for that, man. I was scared and I genuinely did decline the 1st time.

And about a month after, I guess they had a, you know, a 2nd 1st run, technically a 2nd run with somebody else. And it didn't work out. And they came back to me and my buddy Jack at that point. He called me up. He's like, let's just have a conversation. Can you just jump on a call tonight? You know, no, no obligation call.

And I'm like, okay, let's do it. I'm at least not going to decline a call. Right. I just want to be friendly enough. And I want to see what their mindset is and why they're pushing so hard for me. what he told me was, I'm not hiring you for your copywriting because we can hire copywriters. And there's already these AI tools like this was mind you like six, seven years ago, AI was already a thing back then.

And I'm like, well, why do you want to work with me? And he was like, because of your ideas and because of your mind. And I'm like, okay, what do you mean? The challenge was we needed to find, so we were rebranding the company. So the messaging needed to be something like, you know, Nike, just do it.

Something so universal, something so applicable across any country, any market, any number of, you know, population or customers. And we ended up working and we strategize on that call and we. Ended up with like 20 ish ideas on one call. And he was like, you see why I want to work with you? We couldn't find one or two good ones.

We ended up with 20 on one call and I'm like, are these really that good? Like I was still very much. I had that self doubt just because honestly, I felt like I wasn't ready. And he gave me all the push and confidence I needed. So I ended up accepting, and we worked on the messaging for weeks and months, and we ended up with two words only, and it was one of the, to this day, it was one of the most interesting projects of my life, and I still work with them.

the company is actually Digicel, the number one Caribbean telecom operator. Actually, they don't call themselves telecom operator anymore. They're now a digital operator just because they're encompassing so much more. So that was the story and that's when I knew AJ needed to be a thing and I started, you know, rebranding everything from a freelancer perspective to a business perspective, just because.

It made me look like I had processes in place. It made me look like I had a structure in place. I knew exactly how each project should be going. Like you, the client are not the one running the project. I'm the one telling you how to project should be done. And that's really the shift, like from a freelancer to a business.

Like you kind of, it's not even about control. you kind of get the control, like you, you're just handed the reins to any project because clients ultimately are paying for not just your expertise. They're also paying for your guidance. And I feel like in the world of freelancing, they're only paying for your expertise, but they're the ones offering the guidance.

So that was the huge shift and how the name Hey, Jay. Hey, Jay, it's the weirdest thing.I've said this, I said this on a couple of occasions, before, but the way it came about was actually so random and so natural. Everyone used to butcher my name, especially in writing. It was Jasmin, it was a Y, it was an E, it was all sorts of variations.

Some, someone called me Jericho once, and I kid you not, it was the weirdest thing. Yassin and all these variations. So at a certain point, I was just like, enough is enough. And I started signing my name with the letter J, just one letter. And they took it as a sign of, Hey J, do you want to help us with this?

Hey J, are you available for this and that? Hey J, can you jump on a call with us? And I was like, actually, that sounds so cool. Hey Jay, just so natural. So I just started writing it with J A Y instead of the one letter J. And that's how it came about. Like I genuinely did not come up with it. My clients did.

They came up with it for me. So, Hey Jay came to life and a business came into play. All that experience was all of a sudden kind of well rounded out and I couldn't be happier, man. Over the years, it's just been, it's been an amazing journey. And then when I finally moved to, to, to LinkedIn, to, to boost my online presence, I already had the experience.

I already had the clients. I already had the results. I just genuinely wanted to teach because I had missed the teaching job. So what I've done on LinkedIn since day one, I just taught and shared everything. And here we are, you know, Here we are, Jay. Two Jays talking to each 

[00:17:37] Jay: Here we are. Here we are. I mean, look, and let me tell you, I typically take a little bit of umbrance with non Jays taking the J Y approach, but I think yours, I love that story. A lot of people will abbreviate, you know, Any name that starts with a J and call themselves J. My name is actually J A Y. So I'm always like, yeah, I'm a real J, the real J A Y.

But I love that yours kind of came naturally from the letter and you grew it into what you grew it into. you said something interesting and I'm very curious. Upwork is a It's a machine and it's a closed ecosystem, right? Which means there's all sorts of little dials and levers and stuff that, that we have no access to, right?

We don't really, if we can control, but there's certainly ups and downs and you can see when the faucet's been turned on or when it's been slowed down or whatever else. What, what have, what thought have you put into and what, what have you consciously done to, Make a real business, right?

Cause I had to do the same thing when I, when the Ukraine, Russia war started, not that I did any business in Russia, but they cut off. I mean, as I'm sure, you know, they cut off everybody, they cut off all the Russian contractors, all the companies and everything, and I thought, well. That would really be shitty if my entire business went away because I didn't figure out how to do this outside of this closed ecosystem.

So did you have that kind of moment yet? Are you still kind of working through that? Like what is going from this big business, you know, enterprise level stuff, you're doing an Upwork. How is that transiting? Are you have to relearn things? Are you having to kind of like. Start a business over again, outside of Upwork as, you know, a real thing like I had to do, or has it just been a natural

[00:19:22] Jasmin: For me, it was honestly a supernatural progression to just start the business outside of Upwork. To tell you the truth, like, it wasn't that complicated. Just because, and there was a reason, just because I already had a whole lot of clients on a retainer. And I already had that word of mouth reputation.

And in the last seven years, I think seven years, I have not sent a single proposal. A single cold pitch or whatever.especially on Upwork. the clients have all been completely inbound and completely through referrals. So to tell you the truth, that was it. I don't want to make it seem like this huge transition story when it really wasn't.

I just knew that what I had already done needed to be done at a more, at a grander scale. So. That's what I've done. And the link to platform of choice was LinkedIn for me. And now we're on LinkedIn and now we're even figuring out how to scale even further than that, because again, even with LinkedIn, as much as big as a platform, you know, as it is, and as cool as the community is.

All these platforms still have their rules, and they can just cut you off at any point. They don't care.you know, you could lose everything. So whether it's a newsletter, whether it's a website, whether it's an e commerce store, whether it's a course or any other platform that you want to build on YouTube, Twitter, you should do it at least.

Not even part time, at least do it with a half baked effort just so you're somewhere else as well, just so you're not putting all your eggs into one basket because that thing can always happen, you know, all these platforms, as much as they don't want to do it, sometimes they're forced to do it and then innocent people, you know, innocent people's businesses get hurt.

That was the case with Upwork and what happened a couple years ago on LinkedIn. You see people, constantly get suspended or something just because they're cursing in their comments, you know, but I mean, all this time people are telling them be yourself, right? Be authentic. And that's who they are.

Like that's how they speak. So sometimes they just want to have fun in the comments. But the thing is, and sometimes there's people come to me and they complain and they're like, Jay, do you have a solution for us? How can we get our account back? And I'm like, you have to understand that as authentic as you want to be.

There are rules on these platforms that you got to just follow. If they say no cursing whatsoever. And don't curse whatsoever. And then when they finally ban you for doing the very same thing, they told you not to, you're like, how can we get it back? Well, you should have thought, you know, earlier about it again, as, as cool as you are, as good as you are, all these platforms in at the very end, they have their own rules.

We just have to understand that all of it is borrowed audiences and borrowed time and borrowed platforms. Borrowed mediums, you know, borrowed everything you own. And none of it, you literally own none of it. the only owned audience for you is like a new newsletter or a course. That's it. That's it. So a natural progression, I feel like for everyone is that moving from any of these social slash business platforms into something that you co created, you own or co own, and I would advise that to anybody, whoever you may be, just Start getting a little bit more versatile.

Start diversifying your presence. Don't just be on one platform. And this is also advice for me. Because I very much suck at being on other platforms. I'm not the biggest social media person, man. barring LinkedIn. I genuinely don't use social media. Like, everyone knows this. I started using Instagram a little bit.

Just stories. I started using Twitter a little bit, but I post like once a month or sometimes I'll do a bit more, frequent posting. And then I'll just stop just because it's, those are not my platforms that I fell in love with. Anyhow, that all being said. We got to understand that we owe nothing to these platforms and they owe nothing to us.

So the only thing you can do is think of ways you can build your business outside of these platforms independently, at least. So AI now the AI era has officially begun. People are building all sorts of platforms, all sorts of tools and AI coaches and whatever. So I'm looking forward to the future.

Honestly, I'm very much looking forward to the future, but for now, we're just, Hey, we're just enjoying the moment. We're doing the best we can on the platforms that we are.

[00:23:57] Jay: I mean, that is a good segue to this next question. You had to start over, you know, with everything you've learned, what would

be step one to start a business over

[00:24:09] Jasmin: I had to start, I would,

[00:24:11] Jay: or tomorrow, let's just say, let's just,let's let you have the rest of your Friday. But if you had to start over on Saturday,

[00:24:16] Jasmin: I had to rebuild my business from zero in 2024, I would genuinely go to LinkedIn first. I would register there. I would start an account. And I would focus heavily on sharing knowledge that I have spent years learning and collecting and honing the skills. And I would just share it for free. And on top of that, I would spend a whole lot of time.

Let's say the comparison is 90 percent to 10%. 90 percent should be commenting, networking, and jumping on calls with people. That is the most valuable thing you can do as a business owner or as a content creator, just because. It's never a lose situation. It's always a win if anything, you get followers.

If anything, you get cool referrals and people mentioning your name in a full, you know, room full of other people. And you also get to 

[00:25:12] Jay: Silence. 

[00:25:13] Jasmin: things you've never experienced before. You get invited to conferences. You get invited to podcasts. You are mentioned in places that you were, you couldn't even imagine being inside before.

[00:25:22] Jay: Silence. Silence. Silence. Silence. Silence.

[00:25:24] Jasmin: And you just get to meet new people, honestly, and from the outside looking in

[00:25:30] Jay: Silence. Silence. Silence.

[00:25:31] Jasmin: the thing that people are seeing is a whole lot of engagement on posts, a whole lot of comments, they're seeing your name being mentioned in all these cool places and they're wondering how. And whenever you're doing big things, they're wondering, what was the magic wand you used?

How did you get them? Like, why are we not getting those invites? And why are we not getting those opportunities? And honestly, the magic wand is just time. You got to invest the time in building these relationships. They don't just come from one viral post, one chat GPT hack guide or whatever. They don't come from 100 templates to write your LinkedIn post with.

No, it comes with time and you investing a heaps, a whole lot of time in building these relationships. And on top of that, you know, the first step was writing really good content that resonates with people because the more people you connect with, ultimately the more people are going to come back to your content.

And it's this whole vicious cycle. The more you do it outside of your content, the more people are going to be into your content. And I feel like I've been doing that since day one. I've done a lot of networking. I've jumped on calls with people, just meeting and chatting and not selling anything.

They're not selling anything to me. And we're just, you know, two friendly creators who met each other and then some random comment section on somebody's profile and somebody's posts. And we're just like, Hey, what's up, dude? What's up? That's good. And then you start supporting each other and each other's posts.

And then other people seeing those posts, they see you all the time. They come back to your profile. And imagine doing that with like. 50 new people every month, you know, you know what the sort of ripple effect of that is, man. It was just amazing. And the job opportunities is just crazy, but a whole lot of folks don't understand that they have to do it.

It's not even a question about having to do it, but it is a really good thing if you do it because without it you're on your own and you're always gonna be stuck wondering How are all these people supporting each other? How are all these people Getting all these opportunities. How are they getting the reputation that they're getting?

It's really about supporting others. The more you support others for free, like just honestly, for free, just spend your time building those relationships. Don't expect anything from the next person. Do not expect them to give you free access to a book, to a course, to a cohort, to a platform. No, just get on that call.

Just talk honestly, just talk. You're going to be surprised with that little 30 minute coffee and conversation. I call mine a coffee and conversation and my Calendly, and it's a private link that I only send. After I'm past this, you know, certain stage with a creator on, especially on LinkedIn, like after we've spoken to the comments for like 15, 20, 30 times, then we're going to be like, Hey dude, why don't we just meet?

Of course, dude. At that point, we call each other dude, right? Just because we know each other from the comments. And then when you jump on that call, it's just very natural. Hey, how's your dog? How's your mom? How's your dad? That's what you talk about. You know, you don't talk about the business and it's the most amazing thing.

And sometimes speaking of business, sometimes you meet your next business partner, sometimes you meet your next employee, sometimes you meet your next client. It's really amazing how this all works, but it really just works with time. Nothing else. There's no hack. There's no group that you can just join and miraculously you're the star.

You have a hundred thousand followers. Nope. Sorry to disappoint you, my friends. It doesn't work that way. You got to invest the time. Building your relationships, especially on a platform like LinkedIn, because ultimately everyone is there to build their business. Everyone is there to sell. Everyone is there to earn their money.

And if you're doing what nobody else is doing, which is just networking for pure relationships, you're going to be doing it differently than everyone else. That's my message for everyone.

[00:29:18] Jay: I love that. I love that.the 2 more questions, but this 1 is something that I've actually asked in 1 of your threads on 1 of your comments on your very active and well responded to posts. A lot of the advice feels like it can be applied. I'm going to say easy and put quotes around it and easy, easier to LinkedIn, other LinkedIn content creators, right? Somebody who's trying to get visibility because, you know, they're enticing on LinkedIn because they're helping other people get business and all these other things. How does that same kind of approach that you have apply to different Industries. How does, if you're not promoting something that's going to be popular, you know, to the masses on LinkedIn, should you still kind of take the same approach and provide that value and provide that content towards your specific audience?

Maybe it's software developers, maybe it's testers, maybe it's DevOps folks, maybe it's market, whatever it is. It just feels like, you know, that LinkedIn marketing, You know, lead generation kind of, ecosystem that you're a big part of. It kind of feeds itself, right? Like you're, you, those people are commenting on your stuff because they're also interested in that.

So is it possible to do the same thing in something that's not kind of feeding the machine of LinkedIn, right? That's something that, that's a completely separate thing that, that you're trying to build an audience for. Can you do that same kind of

thing on 

[00:30:48] Jasmin: that you can build any business on LinkedIn. And as far as content creation goes, share 100%. Like that's my motto. I believe that motto applies to everybody. It, for example, my business is sorta directly connected to LinkedIn. It's, you know, at this point it's LinkedIn coaching and helping people optimize their presence.

the profiles grow, you know, the revenue through LinkedIn. I trained them how to write, I trained them how to understand the algorithm, how to engage a whole lot more efficiently and how to create that inbound machine. That being said, my business is connected to LinkedIn, but if your business isn't connected to LinkedIn directly, if you're building an SEO business, if you're into web development, if you're a graphic designer, who's not designing, you know, LinkedIn profiles and banners, no, you're designing actual logos and brand identities.

You can still do very much the same thing and the same approach is going to be giving you the same results It's a it's human psychology J at this point Just think about it all the information that you could possibly need to do something Is already out there. Like there's not a single framework, tip, trick, hack strategy.

That's not already out there, especially now with, you know, the rise of AI. Everything is already out there, but not everyone is able to find that information just as easily as the next person or as fast as the next person. So why wouldn't you be the, for the lack of a better word, the conduit, the provider of that information?

Why wouldn't you be? That's the question. I feel like a lot of folks will sometimes get trapped into their own minds saying, if I share everything, how will I be paid? Like if I literally share 100% of what I know, why would people pay me? Here's the thing, you have to understand that even if you do share 100%, quite literally 100% of what you know, 99% of people won't apply it, but they won't apply it, not because they're lazy.

But because they're not equipped to apply it themselves, they still need expert guidance. They still need an expert to help them apply it like they know exactly what needs to be done. Like, here's an example. Jay, I can Google how to build a skyscraper right now today and I'll get free software. I'll get 3D mapping.

I'll get all the materials listed to the bolts.everything that I need to build my skyscraper. Can I do it? No, I still need to hire a fricking, whatever the position is called, right? A skyscraper expert. Let's call him that for the lack of a better term. So it's the same thing on LinkedIn and any other social platform.

You can share everything quite literally your entire playbook, every strategy, every file, every little, screenshot you've had in your possession for the last 10 years, share them. You're going to help people. Hey, but B you're going to boost your brand authority to that point where these people feel like the, all these customers, all these followers, doesn't even matter who's watching your content anymore.

Everyone's going to feel like, wow, if their content is this good for free, I can only imagine what I'm going to get paid. for myself when I pay for it, that's the thinking because again, I can look up and I can find 100 percent of the information I need to build my skyscraper. Doesn't mean I can apply it for myself.

And the other part of the psychology is when they're finally at that stage where they're like, I need to start building my skyscraper tomorrow. Who are they going to call then? The very expert who brought them on, who taught them everything about the skyscrapers, they're going to turn to the expert. They already know and trust who better than you.

So who better than you? Honestly, to me, I feel like it's just pure psychology.instead of selling and instead of gatekeeping, and instead of just giving breads and crumbs and, you know, little bits of information, I feel like you're just better off giving it all away. It's just going to increase your brand authority that much more.

Like why keep it's already out there. I don't know. It's just my I'm not saying This is the only approach that works like genuinely. It's not the only approach that works But it's the only approach I can fall in love with I can't fall in love with the approach where i'm purposely consciously giving people 90 And i'm like, oh if you want to get the remaining 10 Subscribe to my newsletter or book this book that like if they really wanted to they're gonna book it anyhow So that's just my approach

[00:35:22] Jay: Right. No, that makes a lot of sense. I love that. I love it a lot. and I feel it's very similar to the, public speaking approach. Right? Like a lot of people do the same thing with public speaking. Like they, they give the sauce away, but then they walk off stage and 30 people are like, yo dude, like I want you to make me that sauce because like, I don't, I have the expertise in both.

So I, I think that I love the skyscraper example. that's a fantastic one. All right. Last one for you. non business related. If you could do anything on earth and I have some thoughts about what your answer is going to be, but I'm dying to hear where it is. If you could do anything on earth and you knew you couldn't

fail, 

[00:35:57] Jasmin: that's 

[00:35:58] Jay: what would it be? 

[00:35:59] Jasmin: If I could do anything on earth, no monetary limits, nothing,

[00:36:07] Jay: And

man, you 

[00:36:08] Jasmin: I would just help people like genuinely help people. I feel like this is just me and how I was raised and my morals and you know, the way my family has brought me up and how I'm going to teach my son to be when he grows up, you can have the most money in the world. You can have the most knowledge in the world, but if you're not impacting others lives, to hell with all of it.

To hell with all of it, for the lack of a better term. Honestly, if you're not changing other people's lives, and by other people's lives, I don't just mean your inner circle of close family and friends, like genuinely making an impact on this earth, what the hell are you doing here, man? Like, where's your life going?

Like, what was it all for? Like, was your why, was your life really, you know, the purpose of it? Was it really just to impact 10 people out of the billions and billions out there? I can't wrap my head around that. So honestly, my answer is if I could do one thing on this earth, And I know I couldn't fail. I would do my best to help others improve their lives.

What, whatever that means, you know, giving it all away, the charity, or just giving my knowledge away or training others to do it, whatever it is. I would just be helping people just because I feel like that's the. The most noble thing you can do in this life, whatever it costs you.

[00:37:37] Jay: Well, You can't fail. So I guess you could teach people how to make skyscrapers, as well. So I think that's a great answer from a great guy. I was, I don't get nervous with these anymore cause I've done a lot of them. and I was a little nervous

having you on, man. you're 

[00:37:52] Jasmin: again, the Kanye West analogy. Come on, 

[00:37:55] Jay: really appreciate. No, man,I appreciate you, brother. I, you know, I love your content. I can see, I think that's why so many people connect. I mean, you have such a genuine, feel to everything you say and do. And I think it comes across very clearly, that you do want to help people and that, you know, you know what you're talking about.

So, if people want to find you, Jay, how did they do that? And I'm going to guess

one of them is 

[00:38:19] Jasmin: if you want to follow what I do, and if you want to learn from me, or if you want to do any of the other things that I can help you do first, go follow me on LinkedIn. second thing you can go to my website. I'm going to be launching a huge masterclass regarding LinkedIn, personal branding, copywriting next year, early next year, 2024, and you can go to hey H E Y minus J A Y.

Hey, j dot com slash masterclass and everything else. I mean, there's a newsletter as well. Hey, j dot com slash newsletter. You can go there. Hey, j dot com is the place to be if it's not a LinkedIn. So I'm going to be, I'm actually in the process right now, revamping the website. So by the time you're going to be hearing this, most likely the website will be in its new format.

So there's going to be a whole lot of new pages and a whole lot of resources. So I'm here for you guys, whatever you need. Let's just, let's take it to the moon.

[00:39:17] Jay: Love it. what a way to, end the year for the podcast, our biggest and brightest, guests. So Jay, I can't thank you enough for your time, brother. Be good. Enjoy your weekend. Have happy holidays with you and the little

[00:39:29] Jasmin: Thank you, Jay, man. it was good to have finally two Jays on the show. I've never been, I've never been on a show where there 

[00:39:35] Jay: two J's. J squared. Oh, it was great. I hope people enjoyed it, man. We'll catch up again soon. I'll have to have you on

again. You'd be good, 

[00:39:44] Jasmin: Let's plan something for next year, by the way. Okay. Good luck and happy new year, everyone.

[00:39:49] Jay: Let's do it. See you, buddy. 

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