The First Customer - How to build a world-class legal firm with Iterative Improvements

[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the first customer podcast today. I am lucky enough to be joined by Rachel King. She's, the lawyer King, which I'm dying to figure. I didn't learn that before the show because I want to hear that live. why you're called the lawyer King. welcome to the show. How are you?

[00:00:43] Rachel: I'm doing well. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:46] Jay: we were talking about how nice and sunny it is, where you are and it's rainy here. It's, you know, I think this is the first time I wear a hoodie this season, on the show. So it'll be like fall. Jay is being introduced, to the audience, but, tell me a little bit, where did you grow up and did that have an impact on you being an entrepreneur?

[00:01:01] Rachel: I grew up for the first 12 years of my life in Los Angeles County, and then I would say for my formative years, right, 12 years up until 18, I lived in Thousand Oaks. I don't know that necessarily had an impact on where I am. I think that, The part of my childhood that impacted me most was the fact that I have divorced parents.

And so I split my time, the typical holidays with dad, the school year with my mom and my dad is a lawyer. So I, the fact that I got very limited time with him, he really brought me into the, you know, I had to go to his office and hear about his cases. And I think that really resonated with me quite a lot.

And then both of my families. Were small business owners. So I think those actually two key factors in my upbringing probably had the most impact on kind of my life choices and where I am today.

And what was the mom's side of the, like, what business did she have? So my, it was actually my stepdad, Oh, is well, when he was working, he's since retired was a software architect.

but you know, that was like right when computer, he started right when computers were, I don't know, coming in. So I remember going into his office, he had all the little chips and all the stuff.

So he owned a software company. And then my dad owned multiple law firms, kind of throughout his career as well.

[00:02:25] Jay: Interesting.yeah, it, it almost feels like a foregone conclusion that. Eventually, a lawyer's goal is to, like, own their own practice. I don't know that's the same thing in every career. We're like, that's kind of like the end goal, but it feels like being partner and then, like, kind of owning your own thing.

I'm guessing just because, why am I splitting my money with 5 different for lawyers? Probably not great. But, so let's fast forward a little bit. So you obviously. Yeah. When you went to law school and you became a lawyer yourself, what kind of law do you practice or did you kind of want to do specifically?

[00:02:59] Rachel: I didn't really know actually what kind of law I wanted to do. I think when I started my firm, I just wanted to get a client, right? That was my goal. I didn't care so much. I wasn't attracted to criminal law, I did take a criminal case and decided very quickly. I didn't want to do that. Right now. I'm a litigator.

I litigate in family law and, you know, trust contests, elder abuse, things like that. I can say that when I opened my firm, I did not think I wanted to be a litigator. And I. Absolutely thought that, you know, elder abuse and probate and all of this was like the most boring area of law. But, you know, then I guess the joke is on me because I turned out I love both of them.

And if this is the only thing I practiced for the rest of my life, I'd be super happy.

[00:03:47] Jay: yeah, I mean, for somebody like me who hates, I mean, I love audible, but I hate to read anymore. I feel like I just, is that like, I know this is probably a dumb question, but like, do you like to read? Do you like, do you enjoy reading in your spare time? Because I know as a lawyer, like, good Lord, like you just have to read like all day, every day.

Right. Right.

[00:04:06] Rachel: Yeah, so I, my bachelor's degree is in literature and writing. So I do, I love to read. I read every day. I read, I alternate between nonfiction and fiction books, but reading is near and dear to my heart. I will say law school reading was not my jam. Like I hated it. I, it was in law school that I learned how to skim read because it's so, Quite frankly, I'm a lawyer, and I think law is so boring.

like reading it, it's horrible.

Yeah, I would imagine my contracts that I've had written up. I'm just like, who is reading this and why are we talking like this? Why can't we just write in plain 

[00:04:47] Jay: just 

[00:04:47] Rachel: do write language.

[00:04:49] Jay: just use regular words. Why are we using all this stuff from like the 1600s? It feels like we're like, it's very, it feels antiquated, but, so you leave school and then just go straight to start your own practice?

Is that, was that kind of your move?

[00:05:02] Rachel: I left law school and went

[00:05:04] Jay: Yeah, sorry,

[00:05:05] Rachel: startup

[00:05:05] Jay: school.

[00:05:05] Rachel: practice. Yeah. So I, When I graduate, I didn't take the traditional path. And so by the time I graduated and passed the bar, I was fortunate enough to pass the bar. My first attempt, I was married with three children and I'd been in the army and I'd been away a lot. So I really looked at my career.

I'd owned previous companies as well. And I thought, how am I going to be a lawyer and balance like everything life has? And the thought of going to a bar. Big firm and kind of living for them for the next four years was not my game plan. So I started my law firm right after I became a lawyer. And, you know, I, I guess maybe I took some, the harder path because I learned as I went, but it was the best thing for me at the time.

And I mean, now it's golden.

[00:05:55] Jay: Yeah, it's very interesting. it parallels, I think, a lot of different paths, right? Like, you didn't have the social proof to go out and, like, get a bunch of clients right away because you'd done a bunch of cases for some other, somebody else. You just came straight out of school and did that.

So how did you get that first customer to believe that you were worth their time and money?

[00:06:17] Rachel: Well, not only did I have to figure out how to find my first customer, I didn't have any money

to find my first customer. It would be easy to find a first customer if you had all of the marketing money in the world. And so when I was starting my firm, I did look at everything. I looked at radio. But radio was cost prohibitive.

I had like a total of 1, 800 to start my entire firm. So it's like a thousand dollars a week minimum for radio. So radio was out. I looked into pay per clicks, but the area that I was working, the pay, the click rate or cost was astronomical. So after I went through all of this, I was like, Oh my gosh, I guess I'm going Use my social media skills because I was coming into law as a new, I'm the oldest millennial.

So I was kind of fighting against gen, gen X and boomers, which were practicing law a little bit differently. So I thought, well, they haven't really started on the social media trend, so I will use that because I love social media, but I didn't get my first customer that way. I spent, I figured, okay, I have eight hours in the day.

It's like the typical work day. And I have no clients. So I should spend at least eight hours a day telling people that I'm a lawyer. And then eventually when I get a client, I will take that one hour that I'm working on them and I'll practice on the rest of the other seven. I will go out and continue to tell people that I'm a lawyer.

And I did that. And I went to local chambers because remember, I didn't have any money. So I went to local chamber of I looked up every in person networking group that existed in the area and I calendared them and I went to them until the point that I had to pay and join. and I spread the word that I was a lawyer and I got my first customer.

My first client was somebody who had a fairly straightforward divorce case, young and needed some guidance. And so I was able to, you know, she didn't, Care, I guess that I didn't have a huge amount of legal experience. I did work as a lawyer in my law school at a clinic, but that was how I did it. So I was happy to get her case.

And then from there I can say, okay, so I do family law, right? So I started picking up family law cases, but my customer and I still do it. Right. I, my. Pipeline gets filled a little bit differently because I've been doing this for a while, but if I still go back to the basics, if I don't have a full calendar that I want to be working, like I don't necessarily want to work eight hours a day on law, as a business owner, but if I, you know, let's say I want to do four, if I don't have that, then I take that extra time and I go out and hit the pavement, do social media posts, do marketing, remind people that I'm out there and that I exist and that I'm taking clients.

[00:09:06] Jay: There's two things there. Number one is why do they call it practicing law? curious, do you know the answer to that question? Why do they call it practicing law? Is it like because you're just constantly

[00:09:17] Rachel: It's the same reason they call it practicing 

[00:09:19] Jay: I know that's why I was, that was my

[00:09:20] Rachel: and

[00:09:21] Jay: I'm like, why do they call it practicing medicine?

They should know what's going on.

[00:09:24] Rachel: because you have a set of, so I think the way it was explained to me is you have a set of facts, right? Either if it's in medicine, it's like symptoms or whatever's happening. And in law, it's like this fact pattern of whatever's going on in somebody's life. And then we have these general ideas or theories, law or medicine that we've seen, and we try and figure out how to get these facts that are always unique, right, because every case is unique, even if it's a divorce, they're always unique.

And how do we get it in to the laws or the experience that we've had? And so we're kind of practicing every time. We don't know for sure. What's going to happen? There's no slam dunk to medicine, right? There's no slam dunk in a case. You're just taking experience and factors that you've learned over time and using your knowledge, your learned knowledge and the knowledge of others to, to get the results that you're looking for.

[00:10:16] Jay: Great answer. I'm going to reference that answer at some point in my life. I feel like I'm going to have to explain that to somebody, my kids or something. and the other thing is you mentioned having, you know, 4 hours, let's just say it was 4 hours.how do you practice self discipline?

Do you have to sure that you're spending that 4 hours that you're not needing to do law? On things that are going to move you in the business forward. Like, cause I mean, as a business owner, when I've gotten that extra time, I've struggled sometimes to like, make sure I'm focused and productive, especially, I mean, you live in Southern California where it's beautiful all the time. what do you do to make sure that you're spending that four hours, like actually growing yourself in the business? And

[00:11:17] Rachel: Now I prioritize. I compartmentalize and I prioritize every different aspect of my life.

So, for example, I am a, I run and I do yoga. And so I make sure that every single week I look at my calendar and I put my runs on my calendar. And those are day that's for me time, right? That's mine. I do it and it helps me with the rest. I do the same thing for, work. And for the business, I have a tendency to look six months out.

So I kind of look and see where are with what I have right now, where am I expected to be in six months? And that's a really hard skill to develop. It sounds really easy, but you have to have a practice knowing your site, your business cycles and all of that. And then I use my calendar and I calendar in everything.

So I calendar all of my work hours. I calendar in all of my. You know, research and drafting hours. I calendar in my marketing meetings or, you know, appearances like being on your show, I put it all together and I live and die by my calendar. If my calendar says I'm running, then I'm going to be running. If my calendar says I'm on vacation, then I'm going to be on vacation.

Not everybody likes the calendar. It just works really beautifully for me. And then I take, you know, we're at the end of the year. Right? So when I look at 2024, I'm trying already right now saying, okay, how much given my expected workload or my ideal workload, how many guest appearances do I think I can actually make throughout the year?

Or do I want how many articles can I write and get published? And I put together that and that goes again on my calendar so that I can time everything out.

[00:13:01] Jay: what do you do? you're a mom. So obviously that schedule sometimes changes. what do you do when things have to move around? is it a reset for the week? Is it, what do you do to kind of unjumble everything?

[00:13:14] Rachel: Well, as a business owner, you're kind of maybe a luxury or not a luxury. You get to work whenever you want. So for, you know, I, for example, I do consultations and my son plays football. This is football season. So I will tell my office, you know, on Tuesday and Thursdays, let's push all of my consultations to between five and 8 PM.

Cause I'm going to be at football practice and I don't mind being on the phone and being productive while I'm sitting at football practice or, I have to be making dinner between this time. So let's not have it. So I do adjust my schedule a little bit. I have a fabulous. Team. And I know that they are so give me so much grace when I say, Oh, change of plans, I need you to reschedule my whole calendar and I have somebody else do it.

But I make up the time, right? So I don't ever say, Oh, I can't work today because I'm sick. I got sick last week. I can't work today because I'm sick. So I don't get to call it off. I look then at my calendar and say, where am I going to squeeze all of these other things in that still have to be done?

[00:14:12] Jay: Got it. That makes sense. And having a team is, I think a luxury of doing business for a while and figuring out that it is very Okay. Worth it and, you know, just like you said, the ability to sit down 1 day or have a day come up and you say, I have to clear this day out. Those things need to be moved.

That alone, is just a monumental thing to have in your back pocket when you need, like I said, when you get sick or whatever. And like, then you just have a team that can kind of reorganize things for you. That's a, it's a, somebody, somebody said, you know, you're going to need, assistance before, you know, You think you are.

[00:14:47] Rachel: So just go hire one. And I like kind of kept that in the back of my head and eventually I did. And it was the best thing I ever did. Now we have three or four people on the team and it's just like, it's like a well oiled machine. It's fantastic. Yeah. A team is priceless. It's a hard pill to swallow though. The hire after that, you're like. Oh man, I never want to reschedule anything ever again. It's so much easier to call somebody and say, reschedule for me. And then it magically happens.

[00:15:11] Jay: I live that every day. I think I have to every now and again, jump in there. I'm like, I don't even know what I have to do with this week. So somebody tell me, you figured out early on who, you know, what one of your types of customer is. how has that changed? Is it, has it evolved since your first customer?

I mean, obviously it has, cause you mentioned do a couple of times types of law now, but,how has that funnel, You know, filling mechanism change for you, when you were kind of scrappy and like going to all these events and doing all these things, like, did you eventually invest in marketing and inbound stuff?

Like, what was the strategy switch there from, you know, kind of young, budding entrepreneur to establish business owner who kind of knows what they're doing.

[00:15:55] Rachel: The first year I did everything myself because I didn't have enough work. The second year I made a conscious decision to try something new every year, not to get rid of, right? So let's say the first year I was doing in person networking year two. I thought, well, I'm going to continue in person networking, but I'm going to add a new marketing.

Strategy just to see if it works.my second, so my second year I started, blogging and really working on organic SEO. That was my focus the third year I tried radio and I tried it and I don't like it. So I, that was short lived, but at least I knew that, okay, so I did it and I don't like it and I've kept, I've done that every year I still do that.

So even, you know, going into 2024, I'm. Looking at what is the new thing I want to try this year, and then I reevaluate also all the things that I've done in the past. Do I want to keep it? How do I want to change it? And that has now given me, well, like 10 years worth of trial and error. The freedom to try something

[00:16:55] Jay: Okay.

[00:17:11] Rachel: that I wouldn't have before. But I think. You know, one of the things that I learned through different companies that I've owned, but I still bring in is you can't be an expert at everything.

And it's kind of like the assistant thing we were just talking about. I could do my own social media and I did my own social media until I

[00:17:27] Jay: Like that doesn't make financial sense. So I think five years ago, maybe was when I said this, I need somebody else to do this. I need somebody to ramp me up and to really give it the time and energy that is warranted. So I hired social media at this point in my career. Business ownership. I have a marketing, social media team that creates content, publishes content, interacts.

[00:17:55] Rachel: I still go in every now and then, but mostly it's them. I have a PR person that goes and is completely in charge of getting speaking engagements, publishing opportunities, all of that. I tell them kind of what my goal is and they, you know, They take it and run, but I still stick with the grassroots stuff.

I still am very involved in my community. I like handwritten letters out to people. So I still, sometimes I do it. Sometimes my team does it. We focus on all of those different things, but I think it really matters what your goals are and then who your client base is. I know this is a long winded answer, but 

[00:18:33] Jay: No, 

[00:18:33] Rachel: time, has changed.

Okay, my client base is changed. So when I first started, I was like any client that would come and I really targeted actually, I don't like this term so much anymore, but like the soccer mom, right? the person that is maybe underrepresented, doesn't have the financial resources, but wants some help.

And I liked that target audience because it allowed me to learn how to practice law. Now, because I have such a, So much more experience and I'm really very good in trial and court and I have a different skill set. My target client has evolved and now it's people that, you know, Have, you know, lawsuits that are maybe a little bit more technically difficult are much more valuable or have a lot more money at stake.

And so my marketing strategy has had to shift where maybe now I'm not in the local mom group to market myself, but I'm targeting, you know, using LinkedIn or some of these other.bigger or I don't even know the right word, but where they, my, my target client is going to exist. They may not exist in a Facebook mom group.

[00:19:43] Jay: Right now, it makes sense, and there's a lot of great stuff in there when you went out to do PR and social media and to hand that off. Did you consultants? you bring, you know, hire a part time team? Did you hire a full time team? Like, what was your actual methodology for doing both of those?

[00:20:06] Rachel: Oh, a lot of trial and error again. I interviewed a lot of people originally. I got a lot of, smoke again. This is not my first business, but I got a lot of people that promise the world and aren't really

really know what to do or didn't really understand how to take on the voice of a company.

They always wanted to put their voice through. And so a lot of I hired everybody from, you know, brand new. High school grads that maybe were technically savvy, but turned out to not quite understand the professional environment companies. My, the real turning point was I was part of a, I, me and a couple of local businesses started something similar to a mastermind group, and we actually had panel interviews where we invited social media, prospects into do a presentation on a, for a fake business that we had created.

And that was where I really, for the first time saw the professional leap, right? That there really is a difference between, you know, Fiverr and getting somebody who has copyright experience and digital marketing experience and graphic design. The pay is much different, but you got, we got something really fabulous.

I did that for a bit and he worked one on one with me and my company learned my voice and really helped me hone. What, how I wanted my social media to appear, and now I don't have anybody working in house. I contract with a marketing firm that does our social media firm. That does again, content creation, videos, production, YouTube's, the whole nine yards.

And I, They tell me what they want me to say or do, right? And I provided it, then it magically appears on the web.

[00:21:51] Jay: That's beautiful. if you had to start over again tomorrow, what would be step one?

[00:21:59] Rachel: Well, I'm a big believer that if you want to own a company, then it doesn't matter what good or service you do. It's the same process for every single business. So I'd probably do the same process. I'd figure out what I was, I'd figure out who my buyers are, and then I would step out and reach them if I had the same amount of money, I would probably do it the same way.

I started if I have had the, you know, budget that I have now, I'd probably jump right into to just getting the professionals on board.

[00:22:39] Jay: Right. That makes sense. so what advice would you give to someone? And I think this is a lot of someone's that maybe did step one and step two of what you just described, which is, you know, identify your good or service, identify your perspective person, you know, your ICP or whatever. You know, 3 letter acronym you want to use, but has a real hang up and get stuck at step 3 there, which is to go to where those buyers are going to be right.

And like, it's a physical thing. I think like, there's just a, you know, you can do the cold email, you can do the LinkedIn thing, but like, if you really want to make turn, there is a physical element of you getting up. And go into a physical location where there's other people are and you talk to them and you interact with them and you learn stuff and they hear from you and whatever, what is a piece of advice you give somebody that just can't seem to do that?

Because I feel like that's so many people, they've got the 1st 2, but the 3rd 1 is where they get locked up and they just go, I can't, that's not me. I can't do that. You know, whatever. Okay.

[00:24:09] Rachel: of reasons. Nobody knows what you do unless you tell them you have to go tell the world. What it is you do and really sales is a numbers game, right? And there's so much data that if you tell X amount of people, somebody is going to be interested. And if of all of the people that are interested, somebody's going to buy, right?

So it's just a numbers game going out and. Telling people what you do must occur because nobody's coming and knocking on your door or landing on your website without that. But I do think that however you're comfortable reaching people is The best way for you. So if you can't physically get there, but you are man, amazing behind the keyboard, you need to start telling people on the computer what you do.

If you are killer at, you know, Instagram reels, but you can't get out and do it, then you do Instagram reels and you start telling people what you do. And if you can't do technology, then you get up and you go to lunch and you. Tell people what you do, and the more people you tell, eventually somebody will kind of take the bait and bite, and then it is just, it just continues on.

So I think you just need to tell people, and I think that's where the big hang up is. It's like, well, I put up a website. Well, that's cool. I mean, there's thousands of whatever billions of websites.

[00:25:37] Jay: Okay. Okay.

[00:25:38] Rachel: So that doesn't matter. If somebody's looking to learn how to public speak or looking for where to go, I think local Chamber of Commerces have a lot of information, a simple Google search of networking in my area.

I've not been to Toastmasters, but I've heard people say that Toastmasters is really great for teaching public speaking and giving you the confidence. And all you need to be able to say is, my name is Rachel King and I'm a lawyer, right? After that, people will ask you questions. My name is Rachel King and I sell widgets.

What kind of widget do you sell? Right? People will come and ask you the question. So you don't need to have it all answered. You just need to. Introduce yourself to the world however you can and tell them what it is you have.

[00:26:24] Jay: I think that's a great point. And then, and I, yeah, no, I agree. I think it should be, I guess it's, you know, some people, I think to my original thought was that they hide behind the keyboard too much because it's much easier than going out and doing the physical thing. especially, you know, I mean, I'm right there with you.

I'm like the, at the top end of the millennial scale there. So like we're right where in the world, you know, kind of came out and we like grew up with the internet. So it's like,and I think the younger you get, the more entrenched in that, like online world, you are. So you're like, if it's not working online, then it's just not going to work.

[00:27:01] Rachel: And this just sucks. And it's not for me, but it is a great point. you know, the Instagram or the tick tock or whatever it is, like, you just get your stuff out there. you know, I think you've got a, you've got a shot and I'm like, introducing yourself to the world. I think it's a great way to put it. I 

to add one.

[00:27:13] Jay: Sure.

[00:27:14] Rachel: If you don't know who your target audience is, I was like, that doesn't need to happen. I didn't know how to locate. I had no idea where the best way to find my client was. And so that's where I think if we just can go back to just tell people what you do. Maybe try different things Instagram that doesn't work.

Don't continue to sit behind your computer doing Instagram reels You want to keep trying new things, but you don't need to wait until you know where to find

Your client you just need to tell people what you do

[00:27:43] Jay: No, I totally agree. two more things. why are you called the lawyer? King is number one.

[00:27:49] Rachel: Well, my name's yeah, my name is Rachel King

[00:27:52] Jay: I know that much, but I thought like, is there some sort of, was there a moment where you're

the lawyer. Okay. All right.

[00:27:59] Rachel: So, we were actually doing our previous company when we were running, starting up our previous company, or we still have it, but it's called diybbq. com. We were trying to come up with a name for that company and we bought a URL, and at that time it was 1, 600 and that may not seem like a lot of money for a webpage now, but it was a lot when we bought it.

And so we, I was like, Oh, what should my. Maybe as a lawyer. Like I loved the play on, I love plays on words. I think puns are fabulous. and so, I think my husband and I were just tossing ideas around and I was like, we should buy like the lawyer King. That would be great. It's kind of a play on words and it's my last name.

So even though it's kind of ambulance chaser or cheesy, like it, It becomes okay as soon as you know my name is Rachel King. I bought the Lawyer King domain probably four years before I was a lawyer and I just kept it and then we used it. and now I actually am at the Lawyer King on all of the social media.

So it turned out really good. It's a really good, name. I have a good time with it and it works. Every new social media platform that comes up, I just grab at the Lawyer King and it seems to

not be everybody's first choice.

[00:29:13] Jay: I think it's brilliant. Once I

[00:29:15] Rachel: Thank you.

[00:29:15] Jay: name was Rachel King or King I was like, oh, now I get it. last thing, if you knew. Or if you could do anything in the world and you knew you couldn't fail, non business related, right? So not to have the greatest law firm in the world, but if you could do anything in the world and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be

[00:29:34] Rachel: Run around the United States.

[00:29:38] Jay: like around?

just like run around, but like run

[00:29:42] Rachel: like run

a route around the United States, but physically do it and be able to complete it. I think that'd be super fun.

[00:29:50] Jay: That's great. That's a perfect one. I've never had run around America, as an answer to that. So congratulations on a unique answer. and by the way, is that a telescope in your back and behind me that I can see? Okay.

[00:30:01] Rachel: It is. It's a telescope.

[00:30:02] Jay: an astrophotography nerd and I have like a giant telescope outside and I do astrophotography.

So I had to ask, if, you know, anytime I see a telescope, I'm like, is that your, is that an actual telescope? but it would be a lot of, it's a lot of light pollution there, right? It's like really skies are washed out or can you actually see

[00:30:16] Rachel: Actually, we have Mount Palomar right by us, which is a observatory. So we have huge amounts of light restrictions because of it. So our slides are pretty good at the lawyer King. So that's my website and all the socials.

[00:30:31] Jay: to this question, but, where can people find you, Rachel King? if they want to find the lawyer King. Of course, everywhere. That's beautiful. what a nicely packaged, you know, brand that is, Rachel, you're fantastic.

I love your story. I hope people check you out and I appreciate your time today and have a great weekend. All right.

[00:30:52] Rachel: Thank you and happy, what are we, I don't know when this is going to go out, but happy Veterans Day to all of the veterans out there.

[00:30:57] Jay: I mean, look, we can say that all year round, right? That's a

day to everybody. So, thanks for being on and we'll, we'll catch up with you soon. All right.

[00:31:04] Rachel: Wonderful. Thank you so much.

[00:31:05] Jay: Rachel. 

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