[00:00:27] Jay: Hi everyone, welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by Nicole Lipkin, CEO and Founder of HeyKiddo, which gives parents and teachers everything they need to build a lifelong social emotional and leadership skills at home or in the classroom. I think I got it all.

Nicole. Hello. Good morning.

[00:00:44] Nicole: Hi, how are you?

Thanks 

[00:00:45] Jay: good. How are you?

[00:00:47] Nicole: I'm good. I'm good.

[00:00:48] Jay: You staying cool in this heat? Actually it was beautiful yesterday. What a nice day. It 

[00:00:51] Nicole: It was beautiful yesterday. But no, I'm not. I'm like, I'm sporting Jersey, 1980s hair for the past month.

[00:00:57] Jay: look great. You look great. 

[00:00:58] Nicole: thank you. that's cause I washed it today.

[00:01:00] Jay: Well, thank you for doing that 

[00:01:01] Nicole: Yes. You're welcome. 

[00:01:02] Jay: you did it just for us. alright, so where did you grow up? We talked about it a little bit. It's not here. Where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur?

[00:01:14] Nicole: I grew up in New York. That did not impact me being an entrepreneur, but my

[00:01:18] Jay: Okay, tell me a little bit more about that.

[00:01:20] Nicole: So they were school teachers in the South Bronx and they raised us in Westchester, New York, which you can't do on the school teachers in the South Bronx salaries. So we, on the weekends would, they also sold jewelry because my grandfather was a jeweler.

So every weekend we would work in antique shows or flea markets. And when I was five and my brother was 11, which by the way, It kind of sucks when you can't watch Saturday morning cartoons

when you're up at five in the morning, like setting up all that. So when I was five and my brother was 11, they're like, stop complaining. What business do you want to be in? And we said toys cause we're kids. And so they gave us 400 bucks. They took us down to the wholesale district in Manhattan and we bought our inventory. They taught us how to keep books, how to market, how to sell, how to set up our business. And We were in business and we started so I mean that was and we failed and messed up a lot, but They were the type of parents that were very much like we're gonna figure this out You're gonna you're gonna work through your failure.

You're gonna work through your problems. We're gonna gonna be standing behind you, but you're gonna figure this out. So they were those kind of parents and they were awesome and just really I'm going to be self sufficient and also have a really strong foundation of like solid social emotional skills and mental wellness.

[00:02:39] Jay: That's an incredible start.

[00:02:41] Nicole: Yeah, it was an incredible story. And some people look at it and are like, what? Like that doesn't seem the right thing to do to children. My brother and I have different experiences of it. I saw it as very positive, but I'm the entrepreneur. My brother was like, what the hell? It

was horrible. 

[00:02:55] Jay: right. And it's a great point because as an entrepreneur, I think, at least for me personally, I find it hard to understand how people wouldn't want to be 

an entrepreneur. It's like, how would you not want to run a business and do this? Like, this is the most awesome thing in the world is to create something and have people pay you for it.

And there's no boss that you have to have. You can do it all. It's a very... You know, thank God there's other people who don't think that way, because otherwise, you know, we wouldn't have anybody to work with us, to do these crazy things that we do. So that's a, it's an interesting, you know, dynamic with you and your brother there.

[00:03:31] Nicole: Right. Absolutely. And I, yeah,I can't imagine not being this way, but I'm not going to lie. There are days where I woke up and I've been like, Oh my God, how nice would it be to like shut down at the end of the day and not have things in your mind, like racing constantly and constantly. Like how nice would it be to like leave your stuff there and move on?

And you know that it just never, it's 24 seven.

[00:03:52] Jay: how did you start to deal with that? Because if you don't, then you go crazy and you burn out, and then you do shut down. So how have you started to kind of pick away at being more mindful around operating hours?

[00:04:02] Nicole: So it's a great question and I,it's a long story because I was someone that had three businesses at the same time. So I, my first business was, a psychology practice and it grew into one of the largest ones in Philly with over 80 therapists. I had equilibrium leadership consulting, which is, you know, I, My professional work is organized as an organization.

I'm a clinical and organizational psychologist. So, you know, I do executive coaching, leadership development, culture work with some of the largest companies in the world, and then some of the smallest startups. And then I had, HeyKiddo. And one of the things that really helped me, and this was a,this is probably a story for another day cause it's a long conversation, but I had to really do some soul searching and figure out like one of those businesses, one minute in that business felt like years. where my other two businesses, one minute felt like a millisecond.

And that one business that felt like years, even though that was my stable income and like great and amazing business to be in. It was like a shackle. It was a shackle. And I had to make a really hard decision for myself, because that was the business I started in, that psych practice.

Like, I built it and scaled it for 17 years. And I had to make a really tough decision, because I also needed to focus my energy on the things that I love, but also the things that I felt could make the biggest impact. So, letting that go was number one. And, You know, that was about a year of, or a couple of years, like getting to that point. And then the year of like, then after the sale, like getting to that point and I exited. I exited prematurely in that business. It was mental health. I exited prematurely, but I made a very conscious decision to do it, to

focus on HeyKiddo. It was really tough. And I doubted myself every second of the way.

And I would wake up at three in the morning in cold sweats. Like, what did I just do to my family? What did I just do to our financial future? All of that. But I got to tell you, working through that was a really important part of this process. Like getting here. I work harder now. but I'm able, I'm happier.

I'm able to set, set really good boundaries. I have a four year old. I also had a baby during this as an older mom. I'm able to set boundaries and I wasn't able when he was first born.

I was, this is part of the whole thing.

and I'm more productive than I've ever been. It was like kind of getting rid of that dead, I won't call it dead weight.

It was a wonderful business and I love all the people and all that, but getting rid of the thing that really sucked up a lot of emotional energy for me

[00:06:36] Jay: Mm hmm.

[00:06:37] Nicole: to make way for the stuff that is actually exhilarating. And that was just a really hard, long journey to get there and some real deep self awareness work about what that was. And I have to say, like, you know, as entrepreneurs, your relationship with money is a really big part of it.

And I had a very odd relationship with money. My parents passed away when we were younger. So I was always on my, you know, starting from 19 years old, was on my own and all that, me and my brother.

And it was just very like, so that relationship with money was like, Oh my God, like I need, like I have to save, I have to save, I have to save, I have to be careful, I have to be careful. And it was kind of having a mental shift of... Hey, this doesn't have to be the way,

like I'm going to be okay. Like I know how to earn money.

And even if I'm sweeping floors or being a barista, like I know how to earn money. I know how to make it through. it was kind of like building that confidence and

like, it's going to be okay. so that was a big shift and I think that the years leading up to it, I did not manage the boundaries. I did not manage that kind of mental space as well.

I was stressed a lot,

a lot. And, I feel like now I'm starting to get on the roll after this time, even as a shrink, like I'm on paper supposed to be the most self aware. I'm supposed to have all the strategies. It wasn't until I started putting them into practice

[00:08:02] Jay: Yeah, I was gonna say, I 

[00:08:03] Nicole: versus preaching 

[00:08:04] Jay: one thing is, you know, 

a different story than doing. So, 

[00:08:08] Nicole: totally. Totally.

[00:08:10] Jay: So, tell me, kind of, how HeyKiddo came about. I think it was mid pandemic. it looked like around the founding date.

[00:08:20] Nicole: Yeah.

[00:08:21] Jay: Where did that come from and who was your first customer for that business?

[00:08:25] Nicole: So it was actually right at the start of the pandemic. So, March, 2020. Um, so HeyKiddo was, first the Young Leader Project. And, that was, it was, the idea came, you know, being a clinical and organizational psychologist, wearing those two hats, HeyKiddo lived right in the middle of those two businesses. So, on the clinical side, you know, scale, like being, having that practice and we had a very large family practice too, just seeing the critical needs that children were having and seeing how things were evolving and how families were struggling and the struggles were becoming bigger and bigger. And then also wearing my organizational psychology hat, working with global leaders, hearing the same complaints and concerns of a young professional entering the workforce. I knew that this needed to happen on the professional level. On the personal level, having parents that, you know, my, those school teachers were the ones that would go in.

My parents were the ones that would go in at seven in the morning to eat breakfast with the kids from, you know, the Bronx. and the reason why they did that was so the kids had someone to talk to. And they. Did the same at home. You know, I always like telling the story. My mom, this was kind of crazy and I didn't realize what she was doing until I became a parent. She would have something called boy parties. With my friends and I in elementary school, you know, they were a little tea parties with little cream cheese sandwiches and tea and It was we would have them and she would talk about boys that we had crushes on and Other things and I didn't realize again until I got older but as we got older and our problems got bigger There wasn't a day I would come home or a friend wasn't at my house talking to my mom like my mom knew who these parents were of my Friend and so she wanted to create that house

And there was nothing off limits that I could talk to my mom about like she, so as our problems got more serious or felt bigger, she created that space where we could talk about anything. That's really where HeyKiddo came from. So it started as something, it evolved into HeyKiddo, and that's a long story, but HeyKiddo really launched January 2020 and our first product came out March 2020. And it was designed for parenting adults to start opening up the lines of communication with the kiddos really young

so that. Like opening up that communication and talking could be normalized. So when things do hit the fan, because they will, kids are super comfortable talking about it. And giving parenting adults the tools that they need to start modeling the behaviors that they're trying to build in their kids. And like get more in tune with what's going on.

So our first product was, HeyKiddo Talk, which was a text based,solution. And then we built HeyKiddo Huddle, which is a social emotional learning curriculum. And that was for educators, that's for school. And over time, we learned with that texting, that parents felt guilty. Like a text would come in and they couldn't do it in the moment so they would feel guilty.

And like, we learned so much. So when we launched, right, when COVID launched, I just thought we weren't going to charge for it, like we were going to use this to like really figure out what our consumers

needed, what parents needed. And we, over time, this is where the idea of the app came, and we won our second National Science Foundation grant, which helped us R& D the app.

And, it's really amazing. Again, it gives parenting adults those tools to open up the lines of communication, to model, learn how to model the behaviors they're trying to build, to track. Emotional and behavioral patterns and then it will signal a parent. Hey, when professional help is recommended or urgent care is needed because that like we know early intervention is key,

 but it's like knowing the signs of when early intervention is

needed. So that's what we built. and again, we were really lucky to get the National Science Foundation grant and, recently some other funding. so. that was the trajectory and we still have huddle. We still have huddle in the market, which is for schools, but we're really focusing on giving adults the tools that they need to help support their children's mental, social and emotional health.

We're not looking to replace at all. Therapists would never do that. I don't

believe in that. But you can outsource this to therapists and you can outsource this to schools. And this is one of the things I knew as a psychologist for so many years. The missing part of this equation is parenting adults, giving them the tools so they can be more in tune.

So 

[00:12:38] Jay: there's a weird dynamic as a parent where you're trying to... Not step on the toes of a teacher or expectations of what a teacher should be doing. You're like, well, he's at school and he's getting in trouble for this. Like, that should be the school's problem. And then that problem comes home and you're like, well, I guess I have to deal with it at home.

And then there's the therapy thing. And I've been through a bunch of, you know, I have five kids, so like all the therapy and all that I've done. I've done 

 the whole line, you know, behavioral stuff and ADHD and up and down. So like, this is,it definitely speaks to my experience as a parent.

So it makes a lot of sense. so talk to me a little bit about just from a tactical perspective, how you learn to target your customer. You did a lot of research during that phase and you probably got some great information. How did you start to figure out like, okay, this is who this product very specifically should be aimed at.

Right? Because it can't be all parents in the world. It 

can't be all everything. It's got to be somebody specific. How did you figure out and what was that you've got to start going after?

[00:13:34] Nicole: So a couple of things helped that at first I was like, this has to be for every single parent in the world like that. And that was my ignorance as a founder. Again, my founding experiences were with service businesses, not with a tech company.

So I was really like, I thought I knew what I was doing and then I did it.

And I'm like, oh, wow, no idea. So at first I was like, oh, this should be for everyone and we'll just figure out how to make it for everyone. But I've learned, no, it's not for everyone. So, you know, our beachhead customer in this because we're still really early. We're actually launching our version one of the app in September,our parenting adults that have Children between the ages of 5 to 12.

So we're getting in that elementary. Not that you can't be a little bit older. and they're going to be people like that first set of customers that probably are seeing something

or worried a little bit, whether the child has a diagnosis or not. maybe there's some friend drama, maybe they're going through a divorce, maybe there's a recent loss or whatever it might be. those are people who are comfortable using technology, using apps for

this 

[00:14:33] Jay: do you find those people though? How do you target those 

type of people? 

[00:14:37] Nicole: Great question. So at first my thinking was we'll go direct to consumer and then I learned it's probably not the best way. And also for us with HeyKiddo, this has to get into the hands of people that might not afford it or might not have access to it.

It can't just be for people that can buy it. Like that's our mission. so what we're doing is we're looking and again, we're really early. we're doing more of a B2B2C model.

[00:15:01] Jay: Mm

[00:15:02] Nicole: So we're looking at government agencies and that's really our, that's where the impact is. Like how do we get in the foster care system?

How do we get where we're doing pilots like an intellectual disability, Department of Intellectual Disabilities. Like how do we get to people that need help and support, that might not have access to

this. The second vertical we're looking at are institutions that service children and families. That includes schools, that includes non for profit agencies that service children and families. And then our third bucket are employee benefit companies.

[00:15:32] Jay: hmm. 

[00:15:33] Nicole: So we're really spreading out and what we're doing, the way we're, again, because we're early, we're going to be doing pilots in each of these verticals and working with, you know, working with people that we can develop strong relationships with and really do the research and really ask the questions that we need to ask, how the funding comes in, and then figure out, okay, let's prioritize it. A, B, or C, or B, A, C,

whatever's, whatever, or maybe all three are going to be easy at once. I

don't know. But our goal is to do pilots because that also allows us to do, research and make sure that it's effective for the different communities. So for example, Department of Intellectual Disabilities, there's going to be certain adaptations we need,

 and this will help us figure out how to adapt

as needed.

So that's, and we have our pilots scheduled,for September, which is exciting.

[00:16:20] Jay: Beautiful. if you had to start, Ok or HeyKiddo again tomorrow. With all the lessons you've learned.

[00:16:29] Nicole: Hmm.

[00:16:29] Jay: And this isn't a what would you do different question necessarily, but if it is something different, that's fine. What would be step one for starting HeyKiddo over again, if you had to?

[00:16:38] Nicole: Great question. That is a great question. I have learned so much and I would do things completely differently. So one of the things that was a real game changer for us with the National Science Foundation grant, we also got accepted into the I Corps program. Have you ever heard of

that? It's it's amazing.

It's like a seven week customer discovery program

that forces you to interview over a hundred people. or organizations, whichever way you're going

really focuses, helps you identify who your beachhead customer is,

helps you identify what your business model is and how to get to that. You have a mentor.

it's an amazing, intensive nerve wracking program, but worth every second. If I had known that about that, I, that is where I would have started. And you don't talk about your product. You just dive into what customers need and where their

pain points are.

That's where I would have 

[00:17:33] Jay: right? That's the whole thing behind it. 

[00:17:35] Nicole: It's the main 

part of 

[00:17:36] Jay: points, then what are you doing?

[00:17:38] Nicole: right? But again, I, my experience was with service and I,and service industries that I was very familiar with. So coming into a tech product, I didn't even think to do that. So there was time. There was time spent figuring it out and pivoting to land here,

where I think we could have avoid several of the pivots that we

needed if I had, if we had known what we know now. So, and the other thing is, I know a lot of consultants do that. I know that's outsourced a lot. I would never outsource that work. It was so valuable and hard, but it was so valuable to dedicate seven weeks to talking to people

and I came out of that thinking in ways that I didn't think of in the beginning and thinking of what the,I went in with assumptions and I left with non assumption, I left with what actually needs to happen.

So I would have done that. And like, I think example like huddle, for example, it's a great program. I didn't realize. It was such a crowded space because I didn't do that work before.

[00:18:43] Jay: Mhmm.

[00:18:44] Nicole: so, know, for Huddle, like, I don't put marketing, I don't put the marketing behind. I'm not doing that.

It's in existence because it's such a great program and eventually the two will connect and it still sells. We're still in schools. We're still in homeschools. It's one, it's wonderful. And there's evolutions that will happen to it. But it's just, if I knew what I knew now, I would have done things differently.

[00:19:04] Jay: I love it. I love those answers. understanding those pain points is,

[00:19:09] Nicole: Ugh.

[00:19:09] Jay: and it's, like you said, it's one of the most painful things, but it's also one of the, I'm not going to say easiest, but it is the easiest from a,you know, a tactical perspective, like find people to talk to and find a way to talk to them.

Right? It's like, it's not this doesn't have this long drawn out. And I've talked about this before. It's like market research has this horrifying. you know, fear attached to it, because it's just this, it's a billion dollar industry, like it's, and you can go buy all this data, and you can do all this stuff, and the people get paralysis from analysis, and just don't do anything, right, so it's like you'd rather just ignore it than try to figure it out, so I'm glad to hear that would be something you would do.

Alright, last question. Non business related.

[00:19:50] Nicole: yeah,

[00:19:52] Jay: If you knew you could do anything on Earth, and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:20:00] Nicole: I have to be honest with you, I'm doing exactly what I want to do,

[00:20:03] Jay: Alright, I've heard that one before, and I think that's a fair answer.

[00:20:08] Nicole: yeah, I mean,

[00:20:11] Jay: There's no bucket list items, there's no, climbing Mount Everest, there's no, you know, thing you're just afraid that would, you would fail at. And if the answer's no, the answer's no.

[00:20:20] Nicole: here's the thing, I'm not afraid of failing. So I'm not like, I have screwed up a lot in my professional life and I'm not afraid of it. Like I, like some of the best lessons I've had is from screwing up as a leader and like, and the, so, and that's also the gift that company gave me. Like that was my training ground

of like what to do well and what not to do.

And I guess I'm not afraid, like I think one of the things that I've learned about myself, and I'm not saying I'm a psychopath, I'm not saying my brain doesn't light up with fear when I'm about to like do something scary like it does. I'm afraid of haunted houses, all of that

[00:21:06] Jay: Alright, maybe I'll take you to a haunted house, 

[00:21:08] Nicole: Right, 

[00:21:09] Jay: for Halloween, that'll be your big...

[00:21:11] Nicole: but I'm not when I think what I'm saying is there's nothing that like I want to do that I wouldn't try doing,

[00:21:18] Jay: Right.

[00:21:19] Nicole: you know what I'm saying?

So I, there's nothing like, if there's things on my bucket list, I'll do it. And, maybe part of that is I'm a little bit older, you know, I'm not an entrepreneur doing this at 25 years old anymore.

I'm a little bit older and like I yeah, and I've been through a lot and I know that I 

can do it. 

[00:21:37] Jay: I've heard it and I, if, as long as you have the rationale behind it, which you do, I'll accept that as an answer. 

[00:21:42] Nicole: Okay, good I'm 

[00:21:43] Jay: good answer for today. 

All right. 

if people want to find you, Nicole, if people want to find, HeyKiddo, how do they do that?

[00:21:49] Nicole: So it's Hey-Kiddo.Com and all the socials it's at heykiddoapp. and then you can also find me on LinkedIn at Dr. Nicole Lipkin.

[00:21:59] Jay: Dr. Nicole Lipkin. Well, you are fantastic. You're 

[00:22:02] Nicole: Thank you, so are you. 

[00:22:04] Jay: love your story and 

I love your goals and all the things you got going on So, I hope people look you up and you know, I may even have to do so myself. It's like I said a crazy dad and business 

[00:22:15] Nicole: kids 

[00:22:15] Jay: kids and one on the way.

So it's you know Yeah, it's it never ends. You know, it just keeps I just told my wife. Let's just keep having them. So, You know, what else are we gonna do like enjoy our life or anything? no, but you have a good rest of your summer 

[00:22:28] Nicole: Thank you, you too. 

[00:22:29] Jay: All right. Thanks. 

[00:22:30] Nicole: Thank you, take care. 

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