[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer Podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I'm lucky enough to have Keith Scandone here from O3 World, co founder. O3 is a customer experience consultancy. I'm going to just leave it there. You know, I was going to try to stumble through the rest of it, Keith, but I'll,we'll pause there.

Keith, thanks

for joining me today, buddy. How are you?

[00:00:42] Keith: Thanks Jay. happy to be here. I'm doing well, thanks. 

[00:00:44] Jay: I was just talking to you. You're down in Bethesdalet's talk about where you started there. Where did you grow up and kind of, was there any, you know, pieces of that maybe shaped your entrepreneurial journey as you, went into the workforce? 

[00:00:54] Keith: so I grew up, in the suburbs of Philadelphia, in Bucks County in Doylestown. and then, I went to college, at, Loyola. Now, you know, Loyola University in Maryland. It used to be just Loyola College when I went way back when. in terms of, growing up, were there any pieces that, shaped my entrepreneurialism?

I don't know. I mean, other than maybe I was stubborn and I was reluctant to kind of follow the lead. So probably, I guess maybe that's pretty consistent with a lot of entrepreneurs.

[00:01:20] Jay: Okay, fair enough. I saw some interesting, you had, a couple interesting pieces that you did. You went into some, were they venture groups? Is that where you went, kind of initially? Tell me a little about your past. So you had Ozone Ventures, Rittenhouse Ventures, I saw some of those things along the way. But where did you go after Loyola? 

[00:01:36] Keith: so I had a very interesting journey, but my journey was, not a typical traditional one, very unorthodox, which I think is interesting for budding sort of, owners or entrepreneurs, that often there doesn't have to be a traditional path or journey or, a way to kind of become an owner.

So after I graduated, Loyola, I went to Los Angeles to pursue a career in acting. And so I spent almost seven years, in Los Angeles and I did a lot more pursuit than I did acting, Jay, which is why I decided to kind of hang it up. it was amazing though in a million ways. I mean, I really love California.

I really love Los Angeles, but it also was a, it was honestly getting a master's in, life. I'd never been to California, never been to Los Angeles, and obviously knew nothing about the entertainment industry at all. I went out there, I met... Through sort of a mutual friend someone that allowed me to sleep on their couch to kind of get started And I just kind of figured things out.

It took odd jobs To obviously to kind of get by and keep give myself sort of flexibility for Auditions and I did do some work. I did probably six or seven plays while I was out there a bunch of other like small little things Whether it's whether film or TV like really small things

[00:02:47] Jay: Mm

[00:02:48] Keith: I, again, tons of different jobs.

I worked in casting for E! Entertainment. I was an entertainment reporter for a small internet, startup. Which was cool, I interviewed celebrities on the red carpet and at junkets. so I interviewed dozens if not hundreds of celebrities, in my time while I was out in L. A. and I think the turning point for me was I wrote a play that was produced, and so I ended up having to, I mean I acted in it, I wrote it, I had to hire the director, the other actors, I had to do the set design, I had to promote the play.

And so I really had to play the role of producer. And I think it was through that experience that I realized that I liked the role as a producer versus having to kind of be in front of the camera. as much as I like that creative outlet, the process and formula by which that industry works doesn't really make a lot of sense.

so, being a producer gives you a little bit more creative, I think,freedom and flexibility and oversight, and kind of bringing the whole piece together again, instead of having to kind of rely on others. I came back to the Philadelphia area after, as I said, being there for about seven years out in Los Angeles and really had to start from scratch at 28.

and so, I took a job, I pitched the convention center and a marketing idea. They hired me as a consultant and then I worked for a small. online entertainment city guide that also did some web design development services as well. And so I became sort of a director of marketing for that organization and help with their brand and help with, selling and help promoting them.

And I took over a lot of their, editorial team in terms of the direction that needed to go. I did some writing myself. So just a mashup of all my life experiences in one that I was able to put to use in this, this small company. and ultimately on the web design side of things, they work with a lot of, small bars and restaurants and salons and things of that nature.

and I just, I like their model, but just wanted to take it to more, an enterprise level. And they the... spot that they were in. And so it was at this point, you know, 18 years ago, which had our 18 year sort of company anniversary that decided to part ways from that company and start our company.

oh, three.

[00:04:47] Jay: Wow. That was a very unorthodox journey, you're

[00:04:50] Keith: Maybe some

[00:04:52] Jay: how did you start over when you came back? Like, how did you just kind of become a consultant and get into marketing? And I mean, you said it was maybe some of your experience you had in LA or

whatever, but but was that in you before LA? Was it something you had like any experience in?

Like, how did you get that level of, competency and a pretty, you know, it's a pretty intense world, marketing and being like a director of marketing somewhere, where did that come from?

[00:05:19] Keith: Yeah, you know again, I think just I've always been I've always been somewhat creative and obviously the outlet for me at for a period of time in Los Angeles. So this I thought was mostly Through acting, although I'd done a lot of writing, I'd done a lot of writing kind of growing up, and I'd done a lot of writing in high school.

And then I wrote for a bunch of publications out in Los Angeles, entertainment ones, either covering music or covering film. And so I just had that kind of general kind of background and general creativity. And me becoming a marketing, director of marketing, I mean it was a very small firm, so the title is sort of insignificant, I guess.

but, you know, I just, I don't know, I guess just my travels, my experience overall, and just, how I was able to sort of package myself. I mean, that's one thing that you really learn from Los Angeles. I mean, you are the brand. And so you have to find a way to position yourself to casting directors or to agents.

and so I kind of just used and honestly, consistently have used that same model when I go out and try to, create new relationships or create new business. I mean, I'm sort of the best representation of. Myself and therefore then maybe an extension of the company that I'm associated with So so yeah, I just hustled and i'm sure you can appreciate this.

I think any business owner has to And me falling down and having to get up. That was the first time I had to do it I mean, I probably did it many times in los angeles, but I mean make a pivot that dramatically in life in terms of changing my course of My career trajectory, obviously so dramatically.

so, you know, your back's against the wall. You figure it out. And that's what I 

[00:06:44] Jay: Right. Wow. I love that. so tell me about 03. You said you co founded it. what was kind of the genesis? I mean, you kind of

told me the genesis, but what were like the building blocks for that? And how did you guys kick that off?

[00:06:56] Keith: Sure, so o3 started this at 18 years ago and it was three owners at the time And the O3 stands for ozone, which is three parts oxygen. And so when we established it, not only was it three owners, but it was also,three departments. So it was marketing, design and technology. and so I was sort of the marketing, sales, maybe account side of things.

And then my one business partner oversaw, and led design. And then the third one,led, technology. and when we started, I mean, I was sort of the wild card, meaning I was coming in sort of from the outside. The other two had their own. businesses,just solo businesses. It was just them, but they had worked together a lot.

So for example, when they would design to develop a website, one would design the website and the other one had their own content management system and hosting set up and such. And that partner, would do the development work. So really just kind of came in and we started because of actually the creative collaboration that myself and the one partner, Mike Gatsby, you know, who's still a partner today, had working on some like campaign work and some things that we were doing together, some branding work.

And so we did do that out of the gate because we're a brand communications company. So we were doing some brand identity work and some concepting that myself and our business partner came up with. But it became. It became pretty obvious right out of the gate, Jay, that somebody needed to sell our services.

And I sort of became that de facto, I guess, sales guy and account guy from like day one. Not exactly the reason that we kind of went into business together, certainly not the role that I thought that I was going to be playing, but it was necessary. And that just really became my, almost my trajectory,for the company that, you know, back then and throughout all these years.

[00:08:31] Jay: Wow. so yeah, tell me a little bit about that. I mean, well, we're kind of the. The bigger shifts and pivots you guys had to make along the way, I mean that was 18 years ago, congratulations by the way, 

 it's a long time. what were those, the kind of the major milestones, the major pivots, the big decisions you guys had to make at any given time?

Did you completely change the business at any time? Did you kind of decide to do something completely different? Or was it, you know, kind of what you guys set out to do, you know, 18 years ago?

[00:08:55] Keith: Yeah, no, I think there's a couple of pretty key milestones. so I'll break them up and probably I'll break it up in a couple of different ways. First of all, just like what happened in the environment in the world overall. So 2008, 2009, obviously there was the big recession, big crash, that obviously impacted us like it had several other, you know, companies.

We had only been around at that point a few years and we were not scuffling to get by, but we were getting by just before that hit. And then when that hit, that obviously hit us, you know. Pretty significantly. I mean, to the point it knocked us down and almost knocked us out and it really also needed to look, each other in the eyes, but also look at ourselves in the, in kind of the mirror and determine, like, is this really what we want to do?

Do we want to keep going with this? And two of us decided that we wanted to. And one of us decided he didn't want to.

And so that was a really big pivot. Number one, deciding are we going to go forward or are we going to back out? and then obviously a change. Yeah. in the structure and the direction of the business.

so that was a really big moment. obviously COVID was a really big moment again for all companies. and we had to adapt to that. And I'd say, you know, 03 and probably the rest of the world still sort of adapting as to what that looks like and the pros and cons of what we all went through kind of during that time from a business standpoint, from a business offering standpoint.

I think we've always been on the same trajectory, we've just pivoted a little bit, Jay, over the course of the year, so as I said... We started as a brand communications company, but we always were steeped in digital. So we would do identity development, and then it always came with some kind of, digital component.

So it was typically at that time, a website. So it was a website, a content management software that we would develop, the hosting, etc. And we were working for really small companies. And then a few years in, we decided that we were going to move away from branding because we really just wanted to be really good at something versus pretty good.

and not that we weren't. good at branding. It just was a very crowded space. So we focused and just became a digital or interactive agency a few years in. and then I'd say about, and then at that point we honestly just started doing, I'd say larger scale websites and started getting to e commerce sites and things of that nature.

[00:11:00] Jay: hmm. 

[00:11:01] Keith: and then as a web development become a little bit more of a, became more of a commodity, we wanted to kind of pivot once again. And I don't want to say pivot again, just enhance or adapt. We're just kind of, just kind of grow up maybe a little bit more, than where we were as an organization. And this is probably going back roughly 11 years.

Or so ago, and we want to be a digital product agency. And so really what that was taking the concept of the way we would work with startup companies. But we would really, we'd leverage that and how we would approach enterprise companies. And so looking at if they had the idea for a concept for a new product, that we would be that team to come in and help them consult and help them build out that product.

And so I would say, honestly, we came... We came up with sort of that strategy before we actually had a project that aligned with this new kind of... underpinning of the brand that we were and then, you know, we put it out there and we started to get that type of work, and we're very successful and starting to then lean into where we're getting, where we're at today, there's more customer experience company where we started to do beyond websites and we're doing websites, you know, we're doing digital products and we're doing all sorts of different applications.

And it really got to the point where we were sort of touching Every different digital touch point inside an organization's digital ecosystem and their entire customer journey. And so again, made sense for us to be then kind of consider ourselves or call ourselves a customer experience consultancy.

And a lot of differences, a lot of reasons, I'm sorry for the nuances of the wording, the consultancy part, number one. One to sort of get away from the agency side of things to be looked at more sort of the heads, the head of the decisions instead of the hands that we really were strategically positioning a client to move forward.

And then we could also deliver on the work. And so it was that aspect of the consultancy, but also the customer experience part, because, you know, really what we wanted to do is we wanted to have an influence and impact on the success of, of a client. And oftentimes, I'm sure you know this when you're only given, the ability to work on one tiny property in the larger kind of ecosystem, there's almost impact that you can really have.

But if you have the ability to potentially touch every single touch point along those journey, that journey. You obviously, therefore, there's more pressure on you, but there's more opportunity to kind of really showcase the capabilities that you have and then kind of the performers that you're able to impact, going forward.

 so I'd say between those two world events that happened,in kind of the economy, and then the several shifts we made, the four shifts that we made in terms of just positioning, they were probably some pretty big milestones for us as an organization.

[00:13:32] Jay: I like that breakdown, and I like the, consultancy, agency, head in hands, analogy. That's a good one. I haven't heard that. so what, looking back, you know, what do you think, and I always kind of stumble a little bit with the phrasing of this question. It's not a negative question, but what do you think? Took you so long to kind of lock into 03 and start that, right? Like what were the things like the experiences that kind of gave you the confidence or the thought to say? All right. This is really what I want to do I'm gonna go co found this company, right? I mean you could have done that when you were 20, right?

And a lot of us don't do that So we're in our late 20s or 30s or

after you figure something out What were those pieces that kind of led you to being ready to start that business?

[00:14:13] Keith: well, a couple of things. Number one, again, as I said, I changed careers, so I never really thought that being an entrepreneur was what my path was going to be. it wasn't until I was faced with that, I guess, opportunity that I embraced it. but to be honest, I didn't really, you know, I was naive and frankly, that probably benefited me and us that I was naive.

If I really took a step back and recognized how competitive The space was so, you know, the advertising umbrella of a space, which we fell under for a long time and maybe to some degree still do, I didn't really know how competitive it was. I didn't really know exactly what we're getting into.

I was just going sort of on my instincts and just looking at, look, my opportunities right now. I'm, as you stated, I'm new to this industry. I'm new to this line of work. I don't have an unbelievable pedigree. I'm not sure what role I'm going to get. And so knowing what I experienced from that company and how do I would have scaled that company, I just took it from that.

I looked through that lens and that was kind of how I approached it. And that's how we approached it, you know, together. It sort of just made sense to kind of merge our capabilities and start a business. but again, we had no real business plan. we were very fortunate. obviously luck, timing, hard work.

And just kind of, you know, really just hitting the pavement hard and just trying to build, new relationships and expand on the ones we already had. you know, I wish I could say that we had a perfectly laid out plan and formula. We absolutely did not. it just sort of worked out. so, yeah.

[00:15:39] Jay: No, that's a I mean that's fair I think You know, if you sit around and wait for the perfect plan, sometimes it doesn't, it never happens, right? And that's like a big

[00:15:48] Keith: Yeah,

it really is. and I think it's a really important, it's a really important lesson if you want to start a business. Or just while you have a business, you know, I use the analogy and like in sports of like a running back where it's like a running back, like, you know, shuffles behind the line of scrimmage.

And then where I say just hit the hole in the line, like just run forward and you might hit a blocker and then go to the side and maybe cut. But if you just are just stepping in the backfield, just waiting for an opening, that opening may never happen and you might take a five yard loss.

And I think life and business is the same way. I mean, I'm a very opportunistic person, business person in particular. So these opportunities are not going to be laid out in front of you. Have to go find them. And then once they actually are there, you have to go take them. and I think people are.

you know, you have to fail a little bit. You've got to, that's the only way you really learn. And no matter how much time you put into something, you're still going to fail. So I'm not saying you should go in with as little preparation maybe as we had when we started the business, but I don't think you should overthink it.

And I think that's honestly something that people personally and professionally have an issue with. They overthink things in general, and that'll really bog you down,

[00:16:57] Jay: Yeah. No, and, point well taken, you know, the Sean McCoy, and his shuffling around behind the line, has probably, you know,

been the bane, the, been the, nightmares of lots of Eagles fans over the years, but, So, who was your first customer? we talked about it a little bit before the show, maybe it's not the name, maybe it's whatever, but how did you get that first customer when you guys opened up O3? 

Mm 

[00:17:17] Keith: It's a great question because I, there's, I'm not even entirely sure who our first customer was. It was probably three that kind of came in all about the same time. one was a previous relationship that I had. That I was able to build or kind of expand. and I think the other two came from our, from my existing co founders.

Again, I remember they had their own businesses. And so what we did is we started to transition their, the portfolio of clients. So number one, actually our technology partner, he had a whole list of hosting clients. So that was a great way for us to establish a baseline of business. It wasn't huge, but it was recurring monthly revenue that was able to give us a little bit of a foundation of some business.

So they were all sort of our customers in that regard, even though they were just sort of. clients. But some of the other ones, I think that basically we were able to just bring on under the O3 umbrella versus the umbrella. Maybe that my partners, my partners had before. so I'd say that it was kind of a, we all chipped in probably to our first three customers and they all kind of came probably at about the same time.

[00:18:22] Jay: Got it. All right. let's switch gears a little bit. Longevity is a big thing. I have five kids, so like trying to stay around and healthy and active enough for those guys and girls as long as I possibly can is obviously my priority. what are three things health wise, just personally? that you either are trying to do or that you kind of, you know, stick to, to keep yourself tuned up and stay around as long as possible.

[00:18:45] Keith: health wise,

[00:18:46] Jay: Yes, sir.

[00:18:47] Keith: I mean, I feel like I'm a pretty active person, so finding ways and this is also not as much physically active, but mentally active. so I do a lot of hiking, running, I play tennis,so I try to be pretty active in that regard, especially anything that is related to warm weather and the outdoors.

I'm there definitely want to embrace it. That's a really big deal. And as I said, not only does that help me. Physically, but just mentally, I need that. I need that space. I think, I'm the kind of person that needs to be around, people or activity. I get a lot of energy from that. So, whether it's whatever that might be, whether it's,going out to dinner with them or lunch with them or coffee with them or playing tennis with them or interact with them or going for a hike with them or something along those lines.

I really, it's really critical,to me. Yeah. And again, same thing helps me, helps me just kind of mentally. and then beyond that, I think it's, and that's like more almost like from a social standpoint, but I think from a business standpoint, something that's really important to me is, meeting as many people as I possibly can.

learning something from each of them. And in some cases is learning what to do. And in some cases, Jay is learning what not to do.

but it really gives me a really good,broad perspective. And I try to meet, with all sorts of, different people at all different levels in the organization.

Ideally, obviously it's sort of a C level, but it could be. a company doing the same thing as us and the same size or a little bit smaller or a lot larger, but also it could be of all different sorts of walks of life and industries. and I sort of use that. I don't like really reading business books.

my influence comes from life and from just meeting with people and talking with them and learning from. What went well for them, and what they did they did right, and what brought them success, and also where they stumbled, and what brought them failure. It helps me as a leader. Number one, that I can relate to different people.

Also, it helps me as a leader because I'm not just going off of like sort of gut and instinct as to how to make decisions as a, a company leader, I'm really taking a lot of information that's gathered from not just what we all read in the papers or we get from the market, but I have this other, aspect that I can throw into the mix, of like actual real, from, owners and from leaders, Like what's going on?

And as I'm sure you know, they share some things in private that they wouldn't share in public and that you might not be able to read in the book. So, so I think for me, they're the three like really kind of critical things. and then again, you need to surround yourself with good people. I mean, I'm fortunate to have a loving, supportive wife and family and good friends as well.

And just being around positive people in general. I think that's really important just like as a. The underlying foundation from all of this. If you are, don't have that kind of healthy support system, at home or in your life, Then all the other stuff is, Is just all icing on a melted cake.

So.

[00:21:44] Jay: I love that. I, yeah, I think I take it for granted sometimes. I have so much... Around me the love and support and I think it is easy to kind of wash over that if you know Not everybody lives that life with you know, like seven people in a house like I have that's

constantly and it's not all love all the time obviously But I also love the point about you know, I went to the first couple did Chris Sarah one of my

good friends Did you know Chris?

He's like the mr. Tech in Philly, but You know, I asked him early on, like, what should I be doing? Like, how do I get more business? Like, what am I, and he's like, just go to your global chamber of commerce. And like, I thought like, you know, I went there and it's like a bunch of carpet salesmen and a bunch of mortgage guys.

And I'm like, this is awful. Like, why would I be here? And then like, I went and I started to realize, cutting to your point, you learn stuff from everybody and people are saying stuff about how to do sales and how they do marketing and you're like, Oh, that would be cool. That'd be a different, and you can apply it to your business in a different way.

So I love like. One of your things being, just being around smart business people and kind of picking up things from them as you go. So I love that. Well, let me ask the mystery question. I can't believe it's still a mystery, but it's still a mystery. non business related. what is one thing you would do if you knew you couldn't fail?

It can be anything in the world.

[00:23:03] Keith: One thing I would do if I knew I couldn't fail,

 probably be a guitar player.

[00:23:11] Jay: There you go. See? You get the spirit of it. I get a lot of them that are like, I would, you know... My favorite is, I would do nothing because I'm doing it already. Now I love those people because they're different breed than me, but I love being a guitar player. Have you tried playing guitar? Are you just like,

you would just love to,

I have a beautiful guitar that I've used like twice in my life. I got it as a gift a long time ago and it looks great in the corner. long as in the back of your calls, man, you're

[00:23:36] Keith: it would look a lot better if it was in my lap actually being used or somebody using it.

So I'm holding out hope that one of these days, Jay, I'll actually give it a shot.

We'll see.

[00:23:45] Jay: I wish you the best of luck with that. Well, if people are looking to connect with you, or three, how do they get in touch?

[00:23:51] Keith: sure. Well, LinkedIn, I mean, I'm on LinkedIn, obviously. Keith Scandone. they can email me directly if they want to. Keith at O3world. com. It's the letter O. yeah, that's probably the two best ways to connect with me.

[00:24:02] Jay: All right. Well, you were awesome, man. enjoy your new place. Hope you get settled in

a beautiful area and, enjoy the summer. It's coming up tennis time, right? I mean, you play tennis all summer.

[00:24:13] Keith: you. I try. yeah. As much as I can. Yeah, 

[00:24:15] Jay: All right. All right. Well, enjoy that

and, enjoy the nice weather, buddy. It was great having you on. Thanks for your time today. I appreciate it.

[00:24:20] Keith: Thank you, Jay. I appreciate 

[00:24:21] Jay: man. Thanks, Keith. Have a good one. 

[00:24:22] Keith: Yeah, you too. 

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