[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today. I'm lucky enough to be joined by Jennifer Cresswell She is the founder and principal at Thoughtgro. Jennifer, how are you?

[00:00:39] Jennifer: Oh, well, Jay. Hello. Happy New Year.

[00:00:41] Jay: Happy new year did you do anything fun for your new year's?

[00:00:44] Jennifer: we kind of stayed in, which actually is fun. I would say got some, sparkling apple cider. my husband and I have a young daughter. So we kind of do fun, hors d'oeuvres, finger foods, sparkling cider, and truthfully go to bed on the early side because we're getting up early.

[00:00:58] Jay: Yeah. I like that. I like that me too so, where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur later in life?

[00:01:06] Jennifer: absolutely. So I grew up in the Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Hershey area, actually, down in Wilmington, Delaware now, but, I don't know if it necessarily had an impact on me becoming an entrepreneur. I will tell you, I'm, I guess I, Didn't realize until recently how, I knew how chocolate was made at a very young age and I'm guessing most people don't know that, which was kind of cool, but, I think, you know, what I always liked, and I, you know, I have an engineering degree in operations research, industrial engineering from Cornell.

I always liked figuring out how things worked and trying to make them better. And I think not necessarily. You know, the I've got this idea and this idea. It was more that's idea. I can make it better. That's why is that? Why didn't that work? How can I make it better? And I think, doing what I do now and helping, you know, other entrepreneurs and business owners make their visions a reality.

That's what I do. I make it better and sustainable. And so, you know, I think it was that mindset of digging into what are the issues and finding solutions for them that really, I don't know, started my entrepreneur, entrepreneurship journey. I would never have called myself an entrepreneur until really right when I started Thoughtgro.

And I'll, 

[00:02:22] Jay: yeah, I always thought that I'm not going to say I thought something was wrong with me, although my wife would probably argue that. But I think, I always felt the same way that I was an improver, right? I wasn't a creator necessarily of things from scratch. A lot of the times I would see something and be like, I could make that, but then I could add these things and make it better.

And I, I just want to highlight the fact that there's that's certainly, You know, there's nothing wrong with you. If that's how you think, and that's how you, that's how you operate. I mean, that's where it is, right? there's creators, and there's like, improvers of that. And like, everything is kind of an improvement or something that was already created.

So, I just want to highlight the fact that I lived that too. And, you know, it's a very fulfilling journey to kind of build on something that somebody else has already made. so they, the coaching consulting, you know, space is just. Saturated is not even the word. I don't think, how do you stand out?

I mean, and then that's also a very generic question, but I mean it from a real nuts and bolts perspective. What do you do to get people's attention? Because everybody in their grandma is trying to sell you, you know, B2B business coaching stuff these days, especially on LinkedIn. How do you stand out specifically?

[00:03:31] Jennifer: Absolutely. So it's been a challenging and a learning experience. I'd say I started ThoughtGrow in July of 2022. So we are only about a year and a half old. And, you know, I think I went into it going, you know, I had just, helped a business where we sold a business. Integrated a business, got them up and running.

They're off to the races. And I was like, I loved what I had done. I can do this for other people. And I think maybe I went into it thinking, yeah, this is going to be easy. I mean, it was, I had, referrals, references, et cetera. And it was a learning experience. a fun one. There were exciting times. There were definitely the, what did I get myself into times?

but I think what. I've been doing and it's funny, I've been creating content, really sharing my, how I think about things, and networking. And I think that was one of the key things, trying some things out and truthfully, Jay, one of the things that has held me back, I would say forever is that fear of failure.

I think a lot of us have that and it's really tough to overcome it. but I just, Really started pushing myself to throw some things out there. Some worked, some did not, and that's okay. I learned from it and I've been, I think I've increased my resilience, dare I say, but what makes me stand out is, I think really how I think, how I take, you know, proven process at a creative problem solving mentality.

It really is true. a true marriage of right brain and left brain thinking. I'm trying to get that. Across to people. I'm still working on that. I'm still working on, you know, making those connections. and sharing my thoughts with others. And I feel like once I get to know them, they're like, you can help me.

and it's some of that. We just have a conversation and all of a sudden they go, wait, okay, do I need to pay you for this? And I always like to say, hey, the initial conversation and consultation is free. Because maybe I can help you, or maybe I know someone who can. and so, so it's really networking has what really has driven me to find my clients, find great referral sources, and then continuing to put that content out there, whether it's LinkedIn blogs.

Participating in podcasts, whatever that might be.

[00:05:49] Jay: Beautiful. before I forget, please tell me about NASA and how you are to NASA, as a space nerd. you have a giant telescope in my front yard and I have a giant picture of Andromeda I took over here. tell me about NASA.

[00:06:06] Jennifer: Yes, absolutely. So, believe it or not, you know, putzing around on LinkedIn, as we all do these days. this was back in, September of, 2022 and saw a posting from NASA that they were looking for solar system ambassadors. And I was like, what is this? And Delaware happened to be one of the states that they were specifically looking for people.

It's a volunteer position. I have not paid, but I am an official member of the, the JPL, Elton Galtek organization. I have a badge, that gets returned to them, should I ever lose it. but yeah, really what my mission is to go out and spread, NASA's, mission, Their, engineering feats, what they're working on and just the love of space with my general community.

So, develop programs. it's all on my own time. It's all to be fair. They give us wonderful resources. And I really enjoy going to the, The sessions held by the NASA engineers and scientists where they go through the missions, what and tell you all the background information. And then you can take it to what your audience is.

I've been concentrating on the younger audience doing some things for kids. right now, that's a passion of mine as well, but I'll be doing an event with, the form of executive women of Delaware, later in the year as well, just to, to share my love of space and, you know, with others and. If I can get one kid excited about science, that's a win, especially space science.

because who knows, maybe at some point I'm talking to a future astronaut or someone who may even go to Mars. I'm that hopeful. I love space. I think it's awesome. And that's, here's how I,

[00:07:44] Jay: I love that. I met somebody else that now that you explain what the connection is, that is a, solar system ambassador

as well. and I got to meet Scott Kelly at,packed event, I guess a couple of years ago. So that was super cool. would you go to space as a mom? Would you go to space?

Okay,

[00:08:07] Jennifer: know that answer. I, you know, I would, I would love to go to space. I would love for my daughter to go to space. Um,I'm not in a situation where I can, purchase a seat on one of the, one of the rockets at this point in time. as many are not, I know, but I'd love to say, yes, I also am not the biggest risk taker out there.

So don't,I don't know what my answer would be.

[00:08:31] Jay: that's fair. All right. Back to terrestrial stuff. so you mentioned kind of some of your avenues for getting customers. Who was your first customer?

[00:08:42] Jennifer: My first customer came through a referral as most of my customers have at this point in time. it was a consulting firm, that had actually branched out to provide a complimentary service under a different brand name, but they weren't seeing the results in the profits that they thought they should be seeing based on the market need.

And, you know, the clients that they were going after, and they needed someone to really dig in, figure out what was going on and come up with a plan. Plan for profitability and future growth. I did that. It was not necessarily the, plan that I think any of us went into the engagement, thinking that it would be.

but we're actually now in the process of starting to implement that. Cause it's a rather long, rather long process to get it fully implemented.

[00:09:24] Jay: I have a love, hate relationship with referrals. I love referrals. Obviously everybody loves referrals, but I think we all know that marketing and sales, a huge element of that is timing, right? Like you have to find the pertinent, the company, the right time. They have to be in the buying window. They have to do all these things. And then if you abstract that another level, it's like, well, The referral person has to be in the right time, in the right space, in the right whatever. And it's like, so it's hard to scale and

depend on referrals. so how have you kind of pivoted from, you know, business just from referrals to trying to get out there and do outreach or inbound or whatever, how did you kind of traditional marketing means?

How have you done that?

[00:10:04] Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely. So, and I 100 percent agree. you actually can't scale a business on referrals. it's not a sustainable, scalable method. And I counsel my clients on that as well. but really, you know, I think it's a combination of trying to cut through the noise and find places where your customers are, whether that might be, you know, through LinkedIn, Yeah, absolutely.

Although I would argue there are certain groups of businesses that are, you can find on LinkedIn and you're going to be able to reach those folks. And there are others that are not. so in some cases, I think building your thought leadership, finding ways to get content out there that you can direct people to.

So obviously having a website, Keeping that website updated and refreshed with content, I think is important because whenever you talk to someone, you can point back to it whenever you're putting, posts out on linked in, you can point back to them. I also think, I mean, we are, you know, in the age after the pandemic, there are events, that and that's something that, I've been using to go and be a speaker.

offer a, a, an in person session for a particular organization or a group where you just talk about what you do and maybe something that appeals to them. for example, maybe, you know, I've done something on succession planning or business sustainability. That's something a lot of different types of businesses are interested in.

I target the small business sector. So there's different groups who are like, yes, you know, come talk to us about that. Cause a lot of it takes planning and you want to be, years out for doing some of that stuff. I like the personal connection. I'm going to be exploring doing some, some webinars.

I haven't gone that route yet, just because I feel like there's been enough interest in that. Personal and being in person. And I think that's an avenue I've gone down. I'll be honest. I haven't done a lot of email and I'll tell you why. I feel like inboxes get just bombarded with emails constantly.

And unless it's so compelling or so outrageous. You may be, you'll maybe get like a second or they're like, I don't know this name. Delete. so I haven't done as much email, and trying to, obviously I do try to build my list, but I don't know. I feel like that space is so crowded. I'd rather look for places where you have, folks wrapped attention.

And again, we're a small business, so I'm also not looking for, you know, you know, 10, 000 leads at the moment. Do you know what I mean? It's that's what I've been. I've found it to be very, very useful from 

[00:12:42] Jay: Yeah, it's a, it's a numbers game. when it comes to email for sure, we've had, you know, limited success, but it's a channel, right? It's a channel. and like you said, you don't want to spend a bunch of time filtering through 10, 000 non qualified leads. That's much better to get, you know, 20 qualified leads that you can go after.

If you had to start over today, I know you've only been going for, I guess, about a year and a half. if you had to start over today, and with everything you've learned, what would be step one to start your business over again today?

[00:13:13] Jennifer: I would have started networking a lot sooner 

[00:13:19] Jay: And talk about networking a little bit. You've mentioned the word networking. it's the, it's the key to everything. It's also the most overused word and like people just hear it and kind of like their eyes glaze over and like you hear networking just like, like networking is just a gross thing sometimes. What does networking actually mean to you?

[00:13:38] Jennifer: So networking to me is just talking to people, talking to more people in different areas. I'm trying to get, you know, going to different events that may or may not pan out as useful. you know, saying yes to things and just, you know, trying things out before you really know what you're going to be selling or what you think you're going to be doing.

And, you know, I was, I've always been one of those people who likes to have everything perfect, right? You know, that's, it's all ready to go. It's going to work, et cetera. Part of that is that engineering tinkering mentality. You want to get it just right before you show it to the world. and I would push myself past that and just start.

You know, going out there and talking to more people. I'm not going to blame the pandemic. That definitely did put a damper on a lot of that type of thing, but there are so many ways to reach out to people through LinkedIn and not sell them something. Ask them if they'll talk to you about their background or something like that.

And I didn't do a lot of that, prior to deciding to start my own business. It was one of, I felt like I had an epiphany moment. I loved what I was doing. This is the time. Let's go. And, you know, yes, I did network, but I really started reaching out a lot more to people I didn't know. And just if they said no or didn't respond, okay, no big deal.

And I used to take that as a personal affront. Like, well, why wouldn't they want to talk to me? And, you know, I'm not trying to sell them anything. I'm just trying to have a conversation. And. You know, people get a lot, they get bombarded by a lot everywhere, right? So you have to pick and choose, but if you really show a genuine interest, and then when they get you on the phone or on zoom and you truly show a genuine interest and don't try to sell them anything, you can make a real connection, learn something, and then.

You know, that's another person who you're talking to and can help you figure out what you want to do with your business and how share tips and tricks.

[00:15:36] Jay: Right. No, that makes a lot of sense. And that's something we had success with too. I did, I was reaching out to people with no idea, who I was trying to talk to. And I, like some of my current clients came from like just a chain of those, like, Hey, you know, maybe you should meet whoever from those initial conversations that were just friendly, they were just talking to somebody, you know, I think. like you said, everybody gets bombarded, but they also, they get a lot of those, like, hey, I just want a friendly conversation messages. So, like, they're everybody's ears are a little bit perked up for, like, you know, just waiting for that pivot to somebody to try to sell you something. So, it can certainly be fruitful though.

And I don't think enough people do that. And I think the fear factor, You know, it's a big theme and why people don't really grow. what are your main goals for your business in 2024?

[00:16:27] Jennifer: in 2024 growth. Not a surprise. Probably we're a year and a half old. Definitely want to see some growth, both with existing, clients and obviously getting some new folks. I'm looking to develop some partnerships with people. And when I say partnerships, it's a partners with other firms where we offer complimentary services.

You know, I really believe that there is enough business out there for everybody, right? I don't think, I don't think, and I don't want to be, try to do everything that a client might need. I'd rather engage a partner who specializes in areas that I could figure it out, but I don't do it now.

I'd rather do what I love. And pull in other people or make referrals and I've found, reaching out to a number of folks, they have the same mentality. And so I think, you know, I like to say all ships rise with the tide, if we can benefit our clients. And each other. Why not? and that's not always the mentality that a lot of people have.

They can be very competitive, et cetera. And that's, yes, I want to win. And if you see me on a tennis court, you'd know that too. But, you know, there's not, I don't want to win because somebody else lost. I want to win because I was the right person for that. With the right skill set and the right personality match.

I do. I believe very strongly in personality matches when you're working with the business owners, or my main clients, if you don't gel, it's not going to be successful either for either one of you.

[00:17:52] Jay: Right now? And then the abundance of my mindset, I think is the only, it's the only way to run a business. I mean, if you're constantly scared that people, you know, people are going to steal your clients or whatever, like, you know, you're going to have a tough time. So I love that. All right. One more question.

A non business related. If you

could do anything, if you could do anything on earth and you knew you couldn't fail. What would it be? And you can't say go to space because you already said you wouldn't go to space, so maybe you could. Maybe space is your answer because you're afraid that, you know,

[00:18:20] Jennifer: Well, you said, so you're not

[00:18:22] Jay: People have said space and I have not pointed that out to them. So you're right. I have to go back and take all those back.

[00:18:28] Jennifer: Anything on earth. Wow. Ah, there's so many things that fall under that category. I don't even know what I wouldn't choose from a number of things. it probably would be something to the kin of. You know, competing maybe in, one of the majors in tennis, what you know,

[00:18:48] Jay: the big one? Wimbledon. Is that the big one?

[00:18:50] Jennifer: you've got Wimbledon, you've got the French open the Australian open and the U S open.

I've only, I visited Wimbledon, but not while the tournament was going on. And I've been to the U S open a number of times, but, yeah, something like that would be, I would love to try to do,

[00:19:05] Jay: you can't fail. So you can, you would go win, any of those events that you

[00:19:08] Jennifer: which 

[00:19:09] Jay: All right. Jennifer, you're fantastic. love your vibe. what, how do people find you? How did they find thought growth? They want to reach out.

[00:19:16] Jennifer: Absolutely. So, I am on LinkedIn. so you can reach me there or you can also reach me at J Cresswell, J C R E S S W E L L at thought grow T H O U G H T G R O. com. we also have a website thought grow. com. Again, there's no W on the end of grow. and you can reach out to us through there. but yeah, follow me, reach out, shoot me a note on LinkedIn.

Tell me that you loved it, that you hated it. I'm always up for feedback. I think it makes us stronger and better in the long run. And, I'd love to have a conversation. Thanks for the opportunity, Jay. I really 

[00:19:52] Jay: Yeah, no, you got it. And if anybody says they hated it, they can come talk to me because that would have been my fault. well, Jennifer, you're fantastic. I wish you nothing but the best of luck in 2024. Let's stay in touch and have a good rest of your week. Okay.

[00:20:03] Jennifer: Absolutely. Thanks so much, Jay. Take care.

[00:20:05] Jay: Thanks. See you, Jennifer.

[00:20:07] Jennifer: Bye bye. 

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