[00:00:27] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The First Customer podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I am lucky enough to be joined by Jeff Bruno. he is the co founder and CEO at B.Modelr, very interesting, seemingly useful use of generative AI. since we have so many, or I should say so few, you know, conversations about AI these days, we figured we should have another one, but this one actually seems like a good one.

I love the concept behind it. I met Jeff recently at a channel partners event for one of our clients. shout out Liberty Fox, Bill Evans over there. Jeff. How you doing, buddy?

[00:00:58] Jeff: Really, man. Great to be here. Thanks. Sure.

[00:01:01] Jay: It's, starting to be hot out, here in Philadelphia. So we're starting to get the humidity and the heat, but, you know, it's a nice day out. So can't, complain too much over here. All right. Tell me, man, where did you grow up and, what impact did that have on you being an entrepreneur later in life?

[00:01:15] Jeff: Sure. So I grew up right here in Philly. I grew up, center city, Philadelphia, actually, society Hill area and, you know, Philly pulls you back. So I was here and then went to New York, went to Florida for a couple of gigs and ended up getting pulled back here to Philly finance track. and really ran my own business soon as I got out of college.

I mean, I was finance track, I was a retail broker, but you're still running your own business. So I had the entrepreneurial bug right from the beginning and I stayed in the small business space. And then coming back to Philly, I was working with a small business, helped them really scale. And decided I need to do something on my own.

[00:01:51] Jay: Beautiful.

So I know you did the fractional CFO thing. and now you're building a really cool tech product and you had a services company. Walk me through kind of the, the services business you ran that's leading into this, product that you guys are making. We're going to talk about today. 

[00:02:05] Jeff: started your outsource CFO, which was our fractional CFO business. ran it. We, we've got some good traction because we were a little bit ahead of some of the other fractional CFOs at that time. It was just becoming a more popular thing around 11 years ago, just starting to be. So we had a good run, there for a while.

we. Ultimately decided that it wasn't the avenue we wanted to pursue for the long term scale of where, what my vision was. and you'll love this Jay, I was sitting with my 2B partner, he was still an employee, Julian Wright, sit with him outside summer of 2001, 2021, and we're sitting outside and I turned to him and I go, Julian, I don't think what I envisioned is actually what we're executing.

And he turned to me and he said, I love to hear that. Tell me your vision. And so reiterated the vision from the start. And he said, I want to be a part of that. I said, great. I need you because I can't do the process side. Please come on as my partner. And he became a majority partner just a few months after that.

And we started the pivot to move towards our tech play that we're doing now.

[00:03:15] Jay: So I love the fact that you're leading with a vision, as an entrepreneur and business owner, I think sometimes it's easy to get into consulting and freelancing and just do stuff and like make money and like, you know, everything's fine. And then you kind of have to figure out your vision. after some bumps and bumps along the way, tell me what your vision is and and how long have you had that?

Is it always been something you've kind of thought you were going to do? Or did you develop it after kind of living the life of your fractional CFL?

[00:03:46] Jeff: It's really clear. Actually, when I first started the fractional CFO business, my vision was the same. I wanted to find ways to remove the fog of ambiguity that small business owners constantly are under when it's regards on how to focus on the right value pieces of their business. Model, hence how to build the business.

I approached it from a strategic financial management level through the fractional CFO. So I said, this is the way I'm going to help businesses remove ambiguity about how to move forward and, or understand how to do that and give them permission to focus. And that, ultimately. Was my vision from the very beginning, so it wasn't until sort of going through the motions that I discovered that.

Well, the fractional CFO method. Just was not efficient enough way for me to get the clients to actually lock in on that in real time. So I said, there has to be another way. And so Julian and I developed this process, our own code, our own methodology that really takes the client through the process side.

So if you think about a business, I'll give you two seconds. You think about how a business is structured. It's people in process. I mean, that's it, right? So people running processes. So we said. Well, we need to get the people to understand what processes they're actually running and how to control those processes.

So that's the methodology we developed. So we went from the grass, like the, bottom up and helped people manage that way. And then the executive team can always reach down to the front line and lead that way without all these levels of management and disruption and complication. So that's how we developed our controllable methodology.

Through this measurement system, and now we're applying tech to it with the advent of AI.

[00:05:45] Jay: and I mean, obviously, the wave is crashing upon all of us and it's all we hear about. how did you originally plan to execute on that? Since if it was 2021, we weren't quite in the thick of the, you know, saturation of AI, we're just going to build a platform and just, you know, have your people run processes through that platform.

Was that kind of the original idea?

[00:06:08] Jeff: Jay, great question. So we tried to do the methodology on a service based level, and we tried to teach our employees, Julian and I, how to run the engagements. So we said, we're going to scale this from a service level, and in teaching our analysts slash associates on board, we really struggled to get them up to speed.

So we said, okay, this is just way too heavy analysis for this to be able to be taught to scale. So, at a certain point, we turned and we said, look, we're either going to close this down and just do it us individually. Or we have to find a way for tech to help us. So that's when we started to talk about tech.

And then when AI really started to get out there from a knowledge understanding, even though AI has been around for like 15 years in a major way, when ChatGPT really hit the scene, I turned to my partner, literally Julian, and said, We can use that data set to help us scale with our clients. And he agreed.

And that's when we started to move forward, literally about 18 months ago. We started to, look at that.

[00:07:21] Jay: and how did the, did you already start building out any tech before you kind of decided AI was the way to go? Or did you have to rewrite a bunch of stuff to include AI or were you just, you kind of were at the right place at the right time to engage with AI to kind of answer some of these problems for you.

[00:07:39] Jeff: Yeah, that's really the answer. We were at the right time and we had researched and build out the methodology and used, I mean spreadsheets and Word documents to build out the methodology and implement it successfully with clients that we were running through in a manual basis, but not able to. Really build any tech around that until we, we saw AI come.

Exactly.

[00:08:03] Jay: Got it. So I love the services. To product business pivot. somebody told me one time that everybody that runs a service organization wants to have a product and everybody that runs a product organization wants to run a services business. so I love that. You kind of have made this this change in this pivot.

So how did you go about getting customers? To buy into something that doesn't exist yet. I mean, I know we talked before the show and we talked the other day. you know, you've already got some, clients that are kind of lined up to be your initial set. How did you approach them? Like, what was the pitch?

Was it people you were already working with in the services side? Like who are these people and where did they come from and how'd you convince them that this, is a real AI platform that really is going to do stuff and not just be, you know, something stuck on top of chat GPT, that so many things are these days.

[00:08:52] Jeff: Absolutely. So we actually have a few channels there, so I'll briefly explain them. So the one channel is our current clients. So sure. We have about five of them that are going to roll over into the product. Of our current clients that are on our B.Modelr, which by the way, Jay, we're calling VIDA, calling our, product VIDA.

that's value driven integration, delivering accessibility to the SMB space. So that's VIDA, which by the way is also my daughter.

[00:09:23] Jay: No, look at that. You gotta love that. You gotta love

[00:09:26] Jeff: fun. It's fun. So it's a great acronym and it aligns really well. So, sorry, that was a tangent, but.

[00:09:34] Jay: No, I like that.

[00:09:34] Jeff: A channel? Thanks. The channels we use where the current clients who are like, ready, sign me up.

We see the value. And then there are 2 other we've had a, Long standing since late 2017 relationship with. The Philadelphia industrial development corporation, a local. Community development financial institution in Philadelphia that helps fund companies when banks won't lend to them. And we've had a relationship with them for, since 17 and they've re-contracted with us for two to three new clients every year.

And we're gonna roll two of those clients starting in July into our product and into our service. And why they, why PIDC is excited about that is they're a very metric driven measurement type. Organization, so they love to see how you start with the current state and you go to a future state and you try to improve along that.

That's what our system does. And so we can report that to them very efficient and they're, excited about the other channel was 10 KSB. If, you know, the Goldman Sachs program for the, for 10 KSB companies, 10, 000 small businesses around the country. So I've been involved with them as well for about three and a half, four years.

Doing sort of presentations, just helping out the scholars that are part of that program, which are all business owners. I was recently in 1 of their presentations. Speaking about some items, and I said to the crowd, I said. There were 35 business owners in a room and I said, all right, guys, I have a question for you.

How many of you struggle to understand value? Versus non value add in your business model, 30 hands on them. I said, if I can tell you through a tool that I'm developing, how you can focus on the value added piece of your business model and downgrade the non value add, so it can help you build more equity and scale, would you be interested in that?

30 hands on them. So at the end of the presentation, they came up to me, I'm handing out business cards and I, have like four or five of those people who were starting as our testers in July.

[00:11:53] Jay: I love that. and we talked about this a little bit before too. I think what made me, if I click with me was, a real world example, right? Like what, is a real value ad versus a non real value ad, just using some sort of, you know, example company, just, so it makes it more clear for people, like what it is, you know, you're, laying out here, right?

[00:12:17] Jeff: Yeah, sure. It's all around. It's very simply all around resource management is the biggest thing in resource allocation. That's where we're focusing. And our first niche is the service, businesses, service companies. So really, if you think of a, let's do a marketing agency, something, simple, so if you're trying to figure out how you deliver to the client, You get in order for a website production, or you get in order for some type of, I don't know, digital marketing for a client.

And then you have to take that, what the process is to the end deliverable to get the client to, so the client is happy with the value they're receiving. Well, you have to allocate resources along that process to effectively make something come together that the client is excited about. So, what our system does is it says, okay, along that process, We are going to integrate all of your measures with the customer demands or the customer requirements so that every time you're managing a piece of that process, we're making sure that that's the highest value piece for the customers deliverable.

So, as you're stepping along that chain, where you're tracking those 4 to 5 key pieces and making sure you're allocating resources most effectively. And if you start to fall off on a measurement level, it says, wait. That's not as valuable if the customer come back online with this type of level. And that's, I mean, that's specifically how it runs.

[00:13:49] Jay: and what if a company doesn't know those metrics? Like, do you guys have the experience? Is it like part of the platform to help tease those out so that people can understand what those metrics are? Because, I mean, I know lots of service business owners that potentially wouldn't have those metrics handy, right?

They know they make stuff, they know they have clients, they know they have income and expenses, but they don't really know, maybe the, pieces that would be required to kind of measure it properly. How do you guys deal with a situation like that? 

[00:14:23] Jeff: I'm right, Jay. Ready? Jay, really, you're uncovering our secret sauce here. So here's the deal. What we've developed is using natural language processing or the LLMs out in the, world. We've attached our software application to those currently until we build our own. But for now it's attached to those.

So what's proprietary about our code is that we are using all the data out in the world that pulls into our system so that when we know just a few pieces of information about that business model, we can tell them what they have to focus and then facilitate how they track those measures. So it tells them what measures to focus on.

And then they say, well, I might want to focus on that 1st, because it makes more sense. And we're in the stage of my business. So I'm going to focus on that 1 and our system will facilitate that and have them test. Certain measures over 4 weeks, over 8 weeks and see if they're having an effect. On focusing on those key measures and how it then integrates with their whole business model and financial clarity That's the beauty of the whole equation

So I guess the, billion dollar question is, are you going to use this platform for your own business? Is it going to be something that you guys use to feed your stuff back into to improve what you're offering?Absolutely without a doubt because as we grow what we're going to see We re envision is we're going to see the need for more feature sets That the clients are going to want or the opportunity is to come engaged in our like embedded in our platform. So we're going to want to test those pieces as well.

Naturally. That's how you develop. You iterate, you test, you integrate. So we're going to be using the system for ours. Absolutely. As we continue to grow.

[00:16:29] Jay: I love it.so how do you guys plan on keeping your pipeline full for this thing? Like, what's your sales and marketing approach? Like, as this thing scales up and grows, is it just going to be word of mouth? Is it going to be, you know, you're going to pool a bunch of money for paid ads, or are you going to do a bunch of outreach?

Like, what is your plan to take this thing from, you know, 0. 5 to, you know, Whatever X you guys want to get to.

[00:16:57] Jeff: Yeah, absolutely. We want to be the operating digital operating system for all businesses on the daily use in real time. That's where we want to get to. So that's a massive product. if we can get there, we, first need to do it by network. So I know you, you might have some businesses that you might know of.

We only need to get to probably 40 or 50 businesses for us to be able to get to what we would call like enough investor. Money to be able to then turn up the marketing engine. So we think we can do that locally or regionally, pretty simply through networks, and then we're going to start to turn that up.

And yeah, it'll be a combination of all the tools out there, most likely like SEO, email marketing, lead generation, probably all of that, and we'll have a lot more testimonial and, and. Pull out a value pieces that we can highlight. Like, are you missing this? We can help you. So that's what we're waiting for.

[00:18:01] Jay: I think I know the answer to this just because I know you're a finance, like analytical kind of guy, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Do you have a business plan on paper with these things etched out to where you want to be or what this is going to be? Or has it been a little more fluid and dynamic than that, as you guys have figured this out?

[00:18:19] Jeff: So it's been a little bit of combo of both. So what we believe in for sure is that, yeah, well, while a plan is a good starting point, it, you got plans change all the time as you're developing, especially as a startup, which we are. So we didn't necessarily stick to that plan, but we are live adapting as we go.

So every week we'll say. Where do we need to be? Are we hitting that milestone, which is very similar to what our, system does. So we're making sure that we, stay on top of that. And we, do have called a 6 to 8 month, pretty set idea of where we need to be, and what dollars we need post that.

It's a little uncertain right now. so

[00:19:07] Jay: That makes sense. That makes sense.

[00:19:08] Jeff: nature of it. Yeah,

[00:19:10] Jay: Back to you specifically, how do you stay focused, as a entrepreneur and business owner? Like what are you doing on a day to day basis? Do you work off of lists of stuff? Do you block off time to focus on stuff just in general, from a productivity standpoint, you know, running a business is, enough of a, you know, running a service business and then creating a product and then doing all these other things and getting investors and like having clients and customers.

How do you. Stay focused and locked in to make sure you're maximizing your time and energy to build this thing the right way

[00:19:41] Jeff: it is a heavy lift Jay. so as you can, attest to being an entrepreneur is not easy. but I would say if you're in the business, like we are, which is a very heavy analytical type business. I mean, I am a CEO, but I am a very. Mixed type of CEO where I can sell, but I'm also a very analytical driven type mindset and a finance background.

So you need to block time for the creative process. So analysis is not easy. It takes a lot of thought process. So I will always block at least a three to four hour window when I have to tackle some kind of strategic thought process. Cause it takes me an hour, and a half just to get in flow.

So that's what we always talk about internal is when are we going to get in flow and we make sure we don't interrupt each other when we're in the flow because we can offer a lot more, a lot faster improvement on what we're trying to do. We do that.

[00:20:40] Jay: makes sense. No, I like that. and I guess as a super analytical guy.you know, I think people have a view of them being, somewhat stiff. I met you in person and that's not the case, but I am curious. You know, what do you do to get the hell away from everything and to kind of reset? so, you know, I know those three to four hour blocks for all of us, business owners are very intense and, you know, it doesn't matter what you do or what your business is like, it can be intense.

And even if you're just out networking, like at the end of the day, you're like. That was a lot of like being on for that amount of time. what do you do, you know, kind of consistently, or try to do consistently to kind of reset and make sure you're, not going to explode, you know, at some point from all this stuff going on

[00:21:24] Jeff: Absolutely. Great question. So the way I burn off steam so that, so to speak, so that I can keep level is I absolutely, I mean, you probably hear this a lot, but I, work out consistently. So I, without fail workout 3 times a week. so a lot of, specifically a lot of, weight training at least twice a week and then one cardio thing.

If I didn't have that, I would be in serious trouble. it's really true. I mean, I can't see myself functioning without it. it stabilizes me. It helps a lot. I get a good amount of sleep. some people can function on less sleep. I need at least seven and a half hours to eight hours of sleep to really function.

So I also make sure that's a priority. and that helps. That's generally it.

[00:22:07] Jay: now, the workout thing, I think is probably the most common, but, required part of not going insane. I mean, I, work out probably six to seven days a week. And if I don't feel like a day, I can feel it. and you know, I know, you know, that feeling, even if it's three days a week, it's, if you're missing, if you miss whatever time window it is, you're supposed to be working out.

You can start to just, you feel like spiders are crawling on you. You're about to jump out, you jump out a window. so yeah, no, I totally, get that. And I love that. all right, last question. if you knew if you could do anything on earth, non business related and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:22:47] Jeff: That's an easy one. 

[00:22:48] Jay: Oh,

[00:22:49] Jeff: I would.

[00:22:49] Jay: a tough one.

[00:22:51] Jeff: Oh, it's a tough one. Like it's not really

[00:22:54] Jay: No, it's usually, tough for people to think of, but I have it ready. Let's go.

[00:22:58] Jeff: Oh, I would absolutely want to be one of the first people to jump either to Mars or on a, spaceship that's traveling one third of the speed of light and just expanding into the universe and we live on the spaceship for the next hundred years. I would absolutely want to be one of those. I'd want to bring my family along.

Obviously, but I would love to do that. That's always been a dream of mine since I was a kid is like astronaut and space stuff. I've always been, I went to space camp when I was a young kid, so I would totally love to do that. Yeah.

as anybody who listens to the show knows, I am an, astrophotographer and a space fanatic, so, Oh, really? Absolutely.

[00:23:41] Jay: it on the, show or not. There's a big picture of Andromeda that I shot over there.

but yeah. Giant telescope in the yard. Oh, yeah, I'm a, huge space nerd, so. maybe we'll jump off of something onto Mars together one day. But, Jeff, you're, fantastic. where can people find you if they want to reach out for anything you heard today and where can they find,more about B.Modelr if they want to reach out about that?

[00:24:01] Jeff: The best way is just to email me. Honestly, it's Jeff, J E F F at B.Modelr, B M O D E L R. com. Jeff at B modelr. com. Easiest, communication for me. Or LinkedIn.

[00:24:14] Jay: All right. Well, I'll be following along, your journey. I love the, early stage stuff, especially with folks who are kind of established and then can, you know, turn that energy towards something like a product. So we'll be watching, Jeff best of luck, brother, keep us in, you know, mind.

and we'll have you back on after things are rocking and maybe you're just, you know, you've blown up and, you know, you can make your trip to Mars, and it would be a good time for everybody. So I hope you have a great weekend, enjoy the great weather and we'll talk again soon. All right, Jeff.

[00:24:40] Jeff: Thank you, Jay. Love it. Appreciate it.

[00:24:42] Jay: buddy. See you, man. 

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