[00:00:27] Jay: Hi everyone, welcome to the First Customer Podcast. My name is Jay Aigner. Today, I am lucky enough, and I do mean it today, I say it a lot, I mean it every time, but I really mean it now. Dave Reinhold, my former boss, I guess you could call it, has struck out and he is now, running Venture CPO Incredibly talented product guy, 1 of my good friends and I'm super, super excited to have him on the show today.

David. Hello,

[00:00:51] Dave: Jay, how's it going? It's great to be here.

[00:00:54] Jay: Where is here? Are you in upstate New York side state? How do you where

[00:00:58] Dave: Not upstate. I'm about 20 miles north of Manhattan, so southern Westchester. But some people consider Westchester upstate. But yeah, pretty close to Manhattan. I've lived in New York my whole life. I grew up in the suburbs of New York City. And yeah, still living in New York.

[00:01:19] Jay: what do you think there was any impact on you? Kind of. Having that entrepreneurial spirit throughout your life. Was there, you know, when you grew up, were your parents entrepreneurs? Did you know entrepreneurs? Did you like, where did it finally come from? You know, cause I see a lot of people that, got that experience earlier in life and it may take 20 years to kind of come out, and where did you get yours from?

[00:01:41] Dave: it's a great question. I mean, there's no, kind of definitive moment, I would say. my parents divorced when I was really young and I was super close with both of them, but I remember at a really young age, I'm talking at five years old, you know, wanting to find a way to,have my own money or not be like super reliant on my parents for everything.

and so it's funny. I remember in middle school. kind of my first company, if you will. I took a loan from my mom to, buy bubble gum in bulk from a local candy store. And I also bought a bunch of those handheld, fans, you know, cause we had no air conditioning back in those days. and so I bought in bulk and then I brought them to school and, sold them, you know, at a markup.

And did this enough times where eventually I had enough money to pay my mother back for the loan. but I still had money to then, you know, kind of purchase additional inventory. And I did this for a while. and you know, you'd be surprised. it was a good little business. but I think it was just, you know, this kind of desire and drive to not be fully reliant.

On my parents for everything.

[00:02:46] Jay: did you have any other businesses along the way? Mm

[00:02:50] Dave: not, you know, not really before my professional career. I mean, one kind of really important inflection point in my life was, when I was also in middle school and I got my first computer, right? You got to remember, I was born in the late 70s, right? So I was the last generation born into an analog world.

That went digital. And, so I remember getting a Commodore 64. It was this, you know, really kind of impactful moment in my life. and it really started my passion for technology and digital products. I mean, I'm talking, you know, this is when, you had to dial up through AOL and my sister would be on the home landline and I'd have to yell at her to get off so I can get online. But, you know, just opening that door to this whole digital world was so impactful. and that's really where my passion for tech and digital products was born. and I really studied, all of my studies were really around. you know, management information systems or digital products and also entrepreneurship.

[00:03:53] Jay: and did you, what did you go to school for? Like, what was your actual degree in? Was

[00:03:58] Dave: Yeah. So

information business? Binghamton university, SUNY Binghamton for undergrad and, studied management information systems. And, a few years into my career, I went to business school. I went to NYU Stern, and did a double major in management information systems and entrepreneurship.and really. You know, it's funny.

I went to business school after spending five or so years, you know, in the industry working in product management roles, and I really wanted to get a formal product management education, but, you couldn't go to school at that time and, manage, you know, or major in product management, it just didn't exist.

And so you kind of had to piece it together by focusing on different areas.

[00:04:42] Jay: Interesting. so let's fast forward. We met when you worked at, Loeb and New York. and you came in as kind of a, I guess, a savior, type role, with the company that we were at that will remain nameless for now. but I just, you know, I saw you come in as kind of like this.you know, Mr. Fix it type for the product that we were working on, and, it's interesting to see.

You've kind of made that your own business. Right. So, and I know you can tell me as much or as little about how you went from Loeb, you know, to your own thing, but like, give me the background there. Like, what were you doing at Loeb? And then kind of how did you break out or why did you break out? Were you forced, like, just give me the journey into starting the business.

Cause a lot of people are in that space where they go, I've got all this experience, I want to do something. And then they just stay in the same place forever.

[00:05:36] Dave: Yeah, sure. So, you know, tying that into the previous question about. Entrepreneurial impact and influences. I mean, a lot of my career I spent at startups, right? So always around entrepreneurs, you know, trying to solve big problems. and then I went to lobe, amazing experience. I was there for 7 years, family office.

You know, venture investor, venture incubator, venture studio, extremely entrepreneurial environment. And like you mentioned, that's where we connected. And, you know, I came in really as a fractional product leader, right? I was kind of, I like to say I parachute in, and would help the low portfolio companies.

With things like product strategy, product roadmap, formulation, putting the right process in place, building a team, and then ultimately executing against that, the roadmap and game plan that we put together. So, you know, I've been doing playing that role for a while where I kind of. Come in on a temporary basis, try and, you know, fix things and, or get things moving and then move on to the next thing.

And so, about five months ago, you know, I took the plunge into entrepreneurship finally, for the first time doing something for myself after 25 years of, you know, full time roles at other organizations. And I launched Venture CPO, venture chief product officer. And it's a, product management consultancy, with a, with something of a focus on early stage companies, like seed pre seed, pre seed or seed stage companies.

but really we provide a product management consulting on a temporary or fractional basis, with everything, like all aspects of the product life cycle. So. You know, upstream strategic planning, like I mentioned, you know, strategy roadmap, and then also on the execution side.

[00:07:21] Jay: So how, but I always wonder this about product. Consulting is how do you, is the process just abstracted enough where you're like, I can run this playbook on just about any type of startup or like how much product, you know, expertise or subject matter expertise does it take to really like impact the product somewhere?

Or are you coming in to say like, here's the framework. You guys are the experts. You tell me kind of what I don't know about this industry.

[00:07:51] Dave: Yeah, that's a great question. there's the methodology of product management and obviously, you know, you need to be an effective product consultant or product manager in general, you need to have expertise in that methodology. The other piece is the domain expertise, you know, in, in the specific vertical or sector that you're.

You're trying to, you know, drive an outcome. So, typically I'll come in and I do have my playbook, right? and part of the service that I'm selling is all right, let's get this framework in place. These are the things we need to do. And where it gets kind of specific to the vertical is when we start doing.

the different type of research that you need to do to influence, you know, the product strategy. So, you know, user research, talking to users, looking at the overall market, looking at the competition. So that's where the methodology is kind of extensible or adaptable for any industry, because the inputs are always going to be very specific to the industry.

That the company is operating in. And in some cases, I will do that research myself. But in most cases, it's more of a collaborative effort where, you know, myself, along with members of the team for the company I'm consulting for. We'll collaboratively do this research, you know, different folks will pull in different inputs and then we'll bring it all in together and distill it down into a workable strategy.

[00:09:12] Jay: like an upside to using a consultant and, you know, I've been one for a long time is like the lack of overhead for a W 2 employee, right? Like you come in as a guy and you do your thing. Now, does the, do you think there's going to be headwind for you, for people who want product people in their specific space, even though, like you just said, you've kind of got a framework to get just about any business that's in, you To the next state, do you think you're going to hit that point where people are going to go?

we really need a, or do you think it's even valid? I guess is the question, right? Like, do you think if we were going to work with the healthcare company and go? Yeah, we were looking between you and another company, but these guys do a lot more in healthcare. Do you think the domain is going to be something that eventually kind of lean into more, even though you already have a vertical, which is great.

The venture stuff, I think is something pretty unique. You think you're going to have to continue to kind of like. Yeah. Narrow down and I hate to say niche down. It's like one of my least favorite overused phrases But like I that's kind of what i'm getting at

[00:10:10] Dave: Yeah, I mean, I think it, it probably depends on the stage or maturity of the company, right? Cause the delayed, like if you're talking series a or later, you know, I would agree. You need an internal product team that has domain expertise to really You know, get from 1 to N, but to get from 0 to 1, while domain expertise is important, I think it's what's more important is that you have a sound methodology and a quick and easy approach to get to building from 0 to 1 or that MVP.

you know, I do have a lot of FinTech experience. I have a lot of ad tech experience. that was before joining Loeb. Loeb is a, has a very diverse portfolio. It's amazing. Right. And so my time there, I developed, expertise in so many different verticals, but you know, I think your intuition is right.

You know, especially if I want to get into later stage, companies where presumably there's larger budgets. having, you know, specific domain expertise will definitely become a factor.

[00:11:10] Jay: Yeah, but I think it's a really fair point, especially since you're kind of right now attacking that venture stage. it really is the methodology, right? I mean, they probably come with that domain expertise. Like the companies that are coming to you, like have that domain expertise, like you said, and like, you're kind of just applying this, like, kind of proven framework on top of it.

I love that. who was your first customer?

[00:11:32] Dave: Ah, so when I branched out and launched the consultancy, my first customer is and was, and still is a digital health company. the founder, used to work at Loeb. We were good friends, still are. And so, he branched out, you know, launched his own business. and when I became, you know, when I started focusing on the consulting side, you know, signed them up as a client pretty quickly, which was awesome, cause you know, you always want to get that, that first win to kind of feel validation that what you're doing is actually viable.

and I'm still consulting with that company today. So, it's, you know, it's been, it's been a great first customer.

[00:12:11] Jay: Love the first customer stories. And my favorite follow up question is always. How has that changed? And you've been doing it for only five months. So I'm actually more curious to hear that than somebody who's been doing it for five years. How is who you thought your customer was going to be when you started versus who it is now, or is it exactly the same and like, nothing's changed?

[00:12:32] Dave: I it's definitely changed. and I think it's still changing. you know, like I mentioned earlier, my, my kind of specialty is with early stage companies, right? But I have had some demand. For later stage companies, you know, either, they're going through a digital transformation or they're implementing product management methodologies for the 1st time.

so that's been interesting to see that, you know, later stage companies that are not. You know, their core business is not a digital product. It's a service or some sort of other offering. And now they're looking to build digital product. and so they'll look, you know, for some expertise to bring in house.

but I think, you know, what's interesting is. when I started this journey, I had a lot of support from my network. you know, great network that I built over the years, 25 years in. Right. So I've got a great network and, a lot of the initial clients came through just referrals, word of mouth, and I really started off with a bang and, you know, I was so busy, you know, like day one, just delivering services that I had already agreed to.

I didn't really do much business development. cause I didn't have a need at that time. you know, now we're five months in, I've successfully completed a couple of engagements. I still have a couple of clients, but I now have some bandwidth. And so I'm still trying to work, you know, leverage my network to, to get some additional, opportunities and that is working, but now I'm also starting to do business development.

And that is, just a whole new thing for me. Right. I mean, it's not something I've really had to do much of in my career. And so, it's different. It's challenging. It's a new skill, but, I think I'm doing an okay job.

[00:14:09] Jay: I love to hear that. That's like the sign that you've, you found something successful, especially as like an agency or, you know, a consulting firm or whatever. Like once you get past. If you make it at all, you'll start with your network and then you kind of work your way through your network and then you go, okay, that was cool.

I was successful. Now, like, how do I do this for real? And it's like a scary, exciting, you know, lots of things to learn and lots of questions to ask. And it's, you know, and I don't think that part ever ends. I think you just like, once you start figuring out some of it. You're like, okay, going to these conferences gets me a lot of conversations going to this, you know, event does or sending emails to these types of people.

It does. But then like, once you've locked that in, you're like, all right, what's the next one? And the next one and the next one and really never, which is kind of a fun thing, at least for me, like I love that part of the business. what does it mean to you? Like when you say you're doing business development, like give me some concrete, like, are you playing golf and having lunches?

Like, what are we doing for

[00:15:04] Dave: Is that on the golf course? No. a lot of conversations, you know, I think, my, my main kind of strategy has been to partner with venture funds, right? Because, it's a one to many relationship. If I can, you know, establish rapport and earn the trust of a VC, then they refer me down to their portfolio.

And it's a very warm introduction when your investor taps you on the shoulder and says, Hey, I just gave you a check. I know you have product leadership needs. You should talk to Dave. so, you know, I'm really trying to, form alliances and partnerships with VCs. So there's just been a lot of, meetings and conversations around that.

I am also, I've been finding these, platforms that, or communities that exist for fractional executives, and starting to, you know, start to You know, build a presence in these platforms. that's, you know, that's kind of TBD on how effective they are, right? Like my concern is that. You have a ton of fractional executives in these platforms and then an opportunity comes in and everyone just pounces, right?

so because you literally have a cluster of all the, you know, folks looking for this type of work. but you know, it's great to see that there are platforms out there for folks doing this type of work. So, you know, I've been, you know, trying to build up a presence there. And I've even started to do some LinkedIn advertising, which is honestly not something I really ever envisioned doing.

but, got, had an agency reach out to me and, you know, gave me kind of the, you know, let's give it a go for free kind of a sales pitch. So I said, you know what, let's, there's nothing to lose, right? I mean, I've got, Boundaries and tight controls on, what I'm comfortable doing, what I'm comfortable with them doing on my behalf, but that's actually starting to drive some interesting conversations.

So, you know, I've got a few different angles I'm pursuing.

[00:16:56] Jay: I love that. And I do. I should, I love the community thing. Like I'm a huge community builder guy. Like I've always, like, I'm just a huge proponent of it. Like I've got my astrophotography group that I talk about all the times, like 2, 500 people in it. Like, I just love having and building these groups of people.

And when you can do it for a business, it's like super effective. And then like, also these communities you're talking about.the one thing that I've seen in those, even if they're crowded with competitors, like you get. Known as the venture guy. So then when those opportunities come in, they look to you instead of just like everybody descending on it, because, you know, it's just like fresh meat, but it's like, Dave is the guy.

So we're going to bring him in. So hopefully that kind of starts the head that way, for you.

[00:17:40] Dave: And that's a good point. Just wanted to add to that, you know, I think, fractional as a concept has been around for a while. I think there's a lot of folks, you know, providing services like fractional CMO, or. you know, on the operation side or the finance side, but what I hear pretty consistently is that fractional product leadership, is something of a niche.

there's not a lot of folks out there offering those services. So I hope that's true because hopefully that leads to more demand coming my way. but you know, tying that back to your comment, like that's one of the reasons I've spent the time and effort to build a presence in these communities is because I'm not finding a lot of fractional CPOs in those communities.

And so I'm hoping there's some first mover advantage there.

[00:18:23] Jay: Yeah. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think it does. And I think, I mean, you're going to try a million things and someone's going to work and some's not, and you're going to find great channels for business and ones that are just a waste of time. So, I mean, just on a personal level, I'm proud of you, man.

This is like cool. Like it's a cool, like, you know, reverse of, the universe where like, you know, a former, And let's be honest, I never really considered you a boss. Like you were kind of like the guy that came from the other place, you know? So, but I loved you. Yeah. Like we had a lot of fun together.

and I, you know, I came to respect you a lot and I am proud of you. This is a very cool thing to see. And like you jumped out of the gate and got some clients and you got a great personality for it. So I think you're going to do well. Give me, you know, as a dad, give me three things that you kind of work on to stay healthy, right?

Cause we all want to stay at least active and, you know, have the longevity is the word, you know, so what do you do, what do you do on a daily basis?

[00:19:22] Dave: Yeah, so, a new habit that I've picked up thanks to my wife, is meditation. And, you know, there's so many great tools and apps out there. I mean, it's so easy to do these days. but, you know, following my wife's lead in that regard. And by the way, I should give a huge shout out to my wife. She's been super supportive.

to me on this journey and, just an incredible partner, you know, and so shout out to Amy. Hi, Amy. but

[00:19:48] Jay: show her this later and she'll be like, Oh my God, I can't believe it. And don't tell her that nobody's going to watch it, but just tell her that you shouted her out on this part. Yes.

[00:19:56] Dave: yeah. So, no, but in all seriousness, I find that even just like 5 minutes of meditation in the morning really just kind of clears my head. You know, I think in this new role, there's just, I'm juggling so many balls, it's insane, right? Like I'm delivering services and client meetings and having conversations and biz dev, and it's just like, sometimes it gets very overwhelming and just, you know, having a moment of clarity, I still try and exercise at least three times a week.

you know, so that's going well, I, I do, you know, orange theory fitness. a lot of my friends like to poke fun at me for that, but honestly, it's a great one hour. You know, workout. and the other one that's kind of kept me grounded and healthy is playing guitar. I know that's kind of an outlier. But for me, just picking up the guitar, strumming some chords, trying to sing some Pearl Jam or you two.

it's very therapeutic. And, you know, candidly, I'll If I have a big call or meeting or something, sometimes like, you know, five minutes before I'll just be a jamming out by myself, just trying to get the nerves under control.

[00:21:01] Jay: Nobody's ever said that before. And I think it's a great answer. Like, it's

[00:21:05] Dave: it works.

interesting release, of like, you know, whatever, just angst before anything. That's interesting. those are all great. All right. Well, Let's end it there, but I have one more question that I have to ask. Can't wait, Jay.

[00:21:20] Jay: now this is one that I ask to everybody, it's not one specifically for you, because I don't think we could air, we couldn't air the ones that I would ask you probably, but, if you could do anything on earth, and you knew you couldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:21:33] Dave: I wish I would've gotten a, heads up on this question,

[00:21:36] Jay: And you did, it said mystery question.

[00:21:38] Dave: Oh, well that's

[00:21:39] Jay: there.

[00:21:40] Dave: super

[00:21:40] Jay: I don't want you to know about it. This is the point.

[00:21:44] Dave: If I could do anything on earth without the risk of failing, is it, was that what part of it? Okay.

[00:21:49] Jay: That's the question. Yeah,

[00:21:50] Dave: come up to bat in the last game of the world series where my hit determines, you know, the outcome of the game, because if I'm guaranteed not to fail, I'll hit the walk off home run and be the hero.

[00:22:05] Jay: there you go. And you might have your chance, you know, you could go the bets maybe in the world, you know, so you may have to live this out. All right, Dave, how can people find you? And how can they find Venture CPO?

[00:22:17] Dave: So Venture CPO. com, is the easiest way to find me. You can get in touch with me through the website. I mean, my email is Dave at Venture CPO. com. Very original. also you can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:22:29] Jay: Beautiful. All right, man. Well, you're the man. Thank you for your time. we, I would say, let's stay in touch, but we obviously we stay in touch. So, be good. Have a great weekend. And I'll talk to you soon, buddy. Thank you.

[00:22:40] Dave: Thanks. Let's go. Mets. 

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