[00:00:28] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer Podcast. My name's Jay Aigner. Today I'm lucky enough be joined again Eric McHugh. He's a serial He doesn't make serial, he founds multiple companies.

Today he's here to talk about dataing.io and an AI powered anti Tinder. Matchmaking app that launched a couple weeks ago. How did I do pretty well?

[00:00:49] Eric: You crushed it. yeah. Here I just couldn't stay away.

[00:00:52] Jay: I, you know, I had to have you back,

you know?dude, so you do, it's interesting 'cause Web3 thing I think is filled with. People who do a lot of different things and try different bunch of different things and like serial product starter guys, why is that space kind of so rife for these, I'm not gonna say quick or prototype type ideas, but just different ideas that you can kind of bang out pretty quickly.

You can get in front of somebody, you can prove out. Like why is that space seem to be so conducive to that sort of kind of fast development, ecosystem.

[00:01:29] Eric: Yeah, so I wanna attack that from two angles. So first off, the Web3 crypto space. I think it attracts two type of people, the laziest type of people who don't wanna do anything, and they just kind of sit and wait for like a coin to bump and just dump. And I'm not a big fan of that group. But the other side is the builders.

So crypto is a new thing. it attracted a bunch of money and a bunch of builders quickly. So the people who would likely build a bunch of technology naturally gravitated. Gravitated toward those spaces, and then people usually clumped up into groups, which is what I did. So the people we worked on Shop X with, I met a bunch of people there and kind of networked my way through.

We started a, we were starting a brand new fund called Whole Long Labs, which is a holistic, fund designed to create companies that elevate the collective consciousness. And that's where we're gonna really start cranking out products like, like you mentioned earlier. So it's gonna be under hold on, labs like.

I'm trying a bunch of stuff and just 'cause Yeah,

[00:02:24] Jay: Love that. Are you a vibe coder? Am I on a phone a call with a vibe coder? Is that what we're doing today?

[00:02:30] Eric: I'm not a vibe cutter. I'm a vi vibe marketer.

[00:02:33] Jay: You're a vibe marketer. You are a vibe. You got the

[00:02:35] Eric: Well,

well, technically we're all vibrate, all we are a vibration, so,

[00:02:39] Jay: I mean, it abso we're all just pieces of stars floating around, right? That's all we are.

Um, vibe marketing is brilliant because, You kinda have to,

right? Like, that's that's what it is. It's mis the look and the feel. So talk to me about dataing. you told me it was pronounced dating. I'm going to take you for your word and not my brain.

Who's trying to read

it another way. tell me about the product. Where'd it come from? You know, what's the anti Tinder thing about? Like what? Just gimme, the download on the platform. What?

[00:03:06] Eric: Sure. So happy to. So the funny thing is, I was on a podcast tour for Shop XA while back. That's actually how we met. I went on another crypto podcast called The Crypto Economy. It's run by this dude named Mark. After the podcast like we did, we kind of kept in touch and then this like AI dating and things started following me.

On Tinder, I'm like, or on Twitter, I'm. X now? No, it's forever Twitter like, oh, what is this? It's like, oh, I'm thinking about bonus AI powered matchmaking service. I'm like, that's funny. Dating apps suck. I'm down to help out. So that's how that came into play. So dataing, it's the first ever AI powered matchmaking service, and it solves three main problems that are presented by the dating apps.

So on the dating apps, the top 5% of users get access to everyone on the app. That creates a skewed marketplace. It's dating apps are hot enough, like let's be real. Like if you're on Tinder hinge or whatever, it's like, is this person good looking? Yes or no? Swipe, swipe left, swipe right. And I think the third and most interesting issue is the incentive.

Incentive issue for present day dating apps. So if you think about it logically, if any dating app in the present marketplace, so let's say if Tinder were to match a happy couple, what does this mean for Tinder, that Happy Couple then leaves the app. Then Tinder loses a paying customer, and that's not good for Tinder's bottom line.

So this creates incentive to create churn and marketing, which is essentially keeping someone on Ferris wheel. So if you hear about someone, download the app, delete the app, download the app, delete the app. That's all by incentivized design. Whereas date dataing is different. 'cause we, our intention is to match, our intention is to put users in the best position to succeed.

And so we do this like this. So like let's say you're on dating, you create a profile, you connect your social media, you chat with Cupid, that's our ai. On the backend tags are generating for your profile. So J you would get a bunch of tags and then you would get matches based on other people's tags. And the more you accept or reject matches, the more those tags update.

The more you tell Coupa what you're looking for, the more those tags updates. So the longer you're on the app, the likelihood of finding a match that you actually like increases. And the reason we're able to incentivize that is 'cause after the match is made, it can act as a relationship. Butler.

So let's say for example, you find, I'm not sure actually, I think you had kids last time. Yeah, I really, yeah. Okay. I'll use me as an example. So let's say I match with some girl. we, it's just like, it suggests we connect all our Apple music. It's like, okay, Eric and Lisa. Lisa seems cool. Act cuppa, what should we do?

Well, you both like this one specific artist. There's a concert coming up. She go on the date, we go on the date, we fall in love, we get married. Then cuppa can act as a butler or a relationship assistance from them. It's like, okay, her birthday's coming up. What should I get her? Well, she just added this third Pinterest for this could be a good gift.

Or it's like, Hey, what do we want to do for our anniversary? Great. Do this. Or it's like, Hey, we're having a relationship issue. Can you help us talk through that? So it can function after the initial match is made.

[00:05:54] Jay: I mean, I love it. My question is. the, like, the usefulness of that isn't something that somebody who's just trying to date cares about initially. Right. So like, that would be like basically their. Their perspective has to shift and they have to have a need for a different service that you offer.

that's kind of an extension of your normal platform. Just from a kind of business model

perspective. It's just interesting to think like, you want to track people necessarily because down the line they have a relationship Butler that may be very, it's a great idea. I love that idea. but how are you, so I guess what I'm getting at is. Is it all just marketed at kind of single people first and then kind of as they're in the app and doing whatever, you're making them aware that as they progress towards a relationship, that this relationship Butler thing is there. 'cause I as, like I said, I'm assuming as a single person getting on this app, I'm not necessarily gonna care about a relationship Butler even care that it exists until I have the problems or, you know, get to the point in my relationship that I would find something like that useful.

I do love the idea, by the way, of like the, oh, hey, you. you like this artist. I like this artist. Here's a concert. Come out. Like, that's incredible. I love that. but how are you kinda like upselling this relationship but thing to existing clients before or after they've already made a, you know, relationship.

Yeah, so we're marketing specifically for dating apps first, just because that's the easiest place to market, like the da. No one's really happened, the dating app marketplace. And then from there, once they're on the app, it's like, oh, we also have this cool feature. And so we just pushed that feature live like a week and a half ago.

[00:07:28] Eric: Again, our vibe coders did it. So like let's say you're on the app, you're like, okay, what is this app playing around? We need to do a better job explaining all the features. Oh, what's this plus thing on the top? Oh, I can connect with someone, so, oh, I can connect with a couple, I can connect with a friend. I can test it out.

So that's a way for us to help grow the platform. So let's say you were to join the app. Like what is this? Oh, let's see what Eric and Jay want to do. Let's say friends wise, like, oh, what do you guys want to eat? And we tested this out with like friends and or I tested this out with friends in Marina Deroy.

We're like, oh, Marina Deroy, what do we want to eat? Give us suggestions. That was pretty good. So right now we're just letting people, 'cause we haven't started a full marketing push, like again, like app went live like a month ago. So we're still adding features, testing features, fixing bugs. So we haven't started a full marketing push, but right now we're just letting people find stuff.

Within the app and 'cause like we wanna see where people naturally click on what they naturally do to optimize the app. So that's the stage we're in.

[00:08:21] Jay: So what was the go to market strategy? How do you build a community app with no community to start?

[00:08:28] Eric: Yeah, a really smart guy who said, this is like the chicken and the egg situation where they're like, it's like, okay, you have an app. But you know, like if you go to an app, especially a dating app, and no one's there, it's like, this is kind of stupid. And then you delete the app and then it's like, it's kind of dumb.

So our strategy is we're copying the in and out strategy in the sense we're going city by city focus around SoCal first. Like again, the app is live in the United States so anyone can download. So we're doing like, like 50 50, broad and focused. So with the LA strategy, it's like, okay, if you start with la 'cause that's where we're from, go down to sd.

So we get that whole area in there, get people within those communities going. And the way we did this is we, targeted specific colleges like. UCLA, uc, Irvine and U-S-C-S-D-S-U and did like, did a bunch of speaking events there. So we knew, like I personally did a bunch of like entrepreneur speaking events at those colleges, got to know the communities, got people talking, and now we have boots on the ground at those schools representing the app.

So that's how we're getting the targeted market and we're offering like free photography for like, Hey, you guys wanna. Free photo for your new app. Here it is. something I really want to try is going to like a college or going to a place, I'm like, Hey, here's a free taco. You can sign up for the app.

I think that'll work well. And like a couple of our team members, they also go to raves and stuff, so they're passing, we're spraying the word organically there. So that's the micro approach and we're eventually gonna go. It's just, 'cause again, if you are, like, if you match one in New York, that's great and all, but it's also not the most useful thing.

So we're focused on SoCal first. So that's the niche approach. But of course, like. We're also doing Glo, like we're testing out ads too, but I think ads are kind of boring, so we'll skip over those. So the biggest thing I did to actually raise awareness and go on the wait, grow the wait list, oh, we did a wait list too.

So when our app was in beta, it's like join the wait list and then we would selectively bring people on base how much data they had. So like if you connected a bunch of data, you're probably into the app as you're from this location. So it kind of matched, make that way. But yes, the most successful thing I did to grow the with us was actually gonna a bunch of podcasts and doing that whole tour.

[00:10:27] Jay: No, I love that and I love being on the ground in the colleges. How are you guys monetizing this? Do you pay, does people pay to be on it or what's the monetization aspect for you guys?

[00:10:36] Eric: monetization. Right now it's free and it's gonna be free for a while 'cause we're just trying to get users first. But the long-term monetization aspect is a, I am not a big fan of it, but I think we can. Hyper target with ads and we can put companies in the right place or like, Hey, these people really love your product if they think it's a good fit.

So there's a good way to sell the platform that way, but long term, it's gonna be booking a date through the matchmaking server. So let's say like booking a date, booking an Uber, doing that whole thing, and we get a cut. So like if I were to match with a couple, it's like, okay, here's the first day suggestion.

Would you like to book? If I like the, if I like the place, I like the suggestion, I like the girl I book, I pay. Then dating will get a cup and that. Will get a cut. And this in this keeps our incentives aligned. Mean like the more matches we get, the more money we make.

[00:11:21] Jay: I like that.

[00:11:22] Eric: No, and I don't wanna do a paywall just 'cause I You're off the app 'cause you have like 20 kids.

But, dude, the paywalls on Tinder and like Hinge, they're just so, they're just so sheisty. Like what they do is. I could go on a total Tyra about them, but like, they'll show you their attractive bots hit these matches, but do you wanna see more go on the paywall? Did you pay the thing and you just get nothing?

And then if you're not paying, you're not getting a show. and it's just not a great, it's not fun for anyone to be honest.

[00:11:47] Jay: I met my wife through Plenty of Fish like 13 years ago. I think I was in on the dating apps when it was before the. Gold rush kind of

[00:11:56] Eric: Oh yeah.

[00:11:56] Jay: back in the Okay. Cupid days when that was kind of taken off. Um, but yeah, I mean, I would have no idea at these days. I wouldn't even know what a dating that I meant other than like knowing that you have to swipe left and right, which I didn't think was a thing, back when I was doing it.

But, So how many,how are you measuring, or let me put it this way, what are your goals for user count? Is that, are you driving things based on like, wanting to have a certain amount of users over a certain time period? Or like, what does growth kind of look like for you guys?

[00:12:23] Eric: so the cool thing about our app is, so we're in, we launched a pre, we raised pre-seed, so we got an initial check from an initial investor. So we're trying to reach around 10,000 us. So we put off fundraising because obviously fundraising without the app live without users is just not the position you want to be in.

So we're putting off our fundraising round. So our first initial step is around 10 K users within the. Los Angeles area. So that's our first, I would say our initial goal that we wanted to, with a specific amount of returning users. 'cause again, like if you sign a user, they just delete the app. That's, I guess that's cool, but you want them coming back over and over again.

And on top of that, we are measuring how long you're on the app. So I think those are three metrics. And once we hit 10 k, get some money, get some scaling money. Great. And the cool thing about the phase one is like, we're still in the learning phase. We're just trying about yourself. Some things work, some things don't.

Just find out what works. Put more money into that and lean out the stuff that doesn't work.

[00:13:22] Jay: I love this. I love it a lot. my, question is kind of just from a layman's perspective. What is the AI powered thing doing as opposed to traditional programming where maybe you're creating tags and matching people off tags, et cetera. Like what is the AI component really bringing to this that's different than kind of just traditional smart software?

[00:13:50] Eric: It's generating the tags, creating matches based on the tags, playing the dates, and then answering any question like Chachi Boutique could.

[00:13:57] Jay: Okay. and the tagging and all that stuff. I guess my point more is like, couldn't that be done before AI or without ai? Is like, what is the, like why is AI important other than the chat component, which makes obviously a lot of sense just because of the interface you have together, but what compared to, you know, this was built 10 years ago. a lot of the same core concepts would be there, but what is ai like really. Bringing to the table as opposed to if you were like, you sat down and said, we're gonna build this app without AI at all, you could probably build a similar app, but what does the AI kind of bring that extra piece for you guys?

[00:14:30] Eric: I would say the accuracy of the tags and the efficiency of bringing the tags. So for example, if you like go on Facebook or you go on any other dating app and you felt your interests, what you're about, what you're doing, the answering those questions like just like. Directly, that's what's generating the tags.

But we auto generate the tags based off your digital footprint. So the thing that makes us separate is like a, we're generating tags based on the tab, based on your interests, which I think is important. But if you link more so more social media accounts, like your Gmail, that's gonna give a different data.

Pinterest is gonna give a data different data. Apple music's gonna give different data. So we hit a bunch of different data sources to generate those tags, which create a much more personalized experience. For the user. So Cupid knows you better than most AI would. So for example, chat, GBT like you know, kind of knows you.

The more users are like, okay, kind of knows what I want, but that's only from one avenue. Like you're just telling it to do stuff so knows what it's gonna tell you to do, but it doesn't know too much about your social life. It doesn't know what you like to do. It doesn't know you have a dog. It doesn't know all of these.

And the more tags it generates, the better it gets at connecting these tags on the back. 'cause AI at its core is just really good at pattern recognition. So. Like it'll build connections between different tags that no one would think about. Like for example, I'm wearing a black shirt. That could be a tag that could randomly relate to me being a runner.

And you're wearing a blue shirt that could randomly relate to you being a biker. And we wouldn't miss that as humans. But if enough of. Enough of that pattern shows up within ai, it can pick that up and then start matching people based off of that. And then that's just like one level down. It can keep going down.

It's like, okay, black shirt runner, he's into this type of person. Test it out. Test it out at scale. Okay, the majority of people do this. Great. That's another correlation. So it can get deeper and we're just 

[00:16:12] Jay: makes a lot of sense. 

[00:16:13] Eric: I think it's me, gnarly. And the guy who's, the guy who's creating our tagging system's, like a little just genius Mastermind helped create like IBM's like authored a bunch of stuff.

His name's Dave. He is

[00:16:25] Jay: That's awesome. I

lovethat. 

[00:16:26] Eric: juggler type of thing. But yeah.

[00:16:28] Jay: juggler. speaking of ju what a segue. I mean, it was almost like you were thinking,you were matching my mind here. do you juggle all these things? As, you know, a serial entrepreneur, you're on social, you're doing whatever, you're visiting schools, you're like. How do you organize your day as an entrepreneur? Like how the hell do you, like, what do you do? What do you know you're doing? Do you have, is your, are you dialed into your calendar or do you use AI tools? Like, which I even hate that I even asked that, but just in general, like do you organize your day in a strategic way or are you more just kinda let it flow and what happens?

[00:17:04] Eric: so I have a star point at Endpoint that usually the same, my star point as I wake up at, I think we probably went over this last time, but I wake up around four 20 'cause I find that funny. Do my meditation, send my attention for the day. And I go to the gym, do that whole thing. So that's my start point.

I start my day. Well, if I think my day's gonna go well, then I match the vibe of a day that goes well and it goes well. And then during the day, again, live by the calendar, but it's not always booked. So during the day, I do whatever excites me most. 'cause that's likely what's gonna add the most value to my different companies.

So whatever excites me most is what I do. And then I close a day with Muay Hai. 'cause I think that's a nice reset. That brings me back to the present moment. Because if I'm on Muay Hai and I'm like. Complaining about bitch, about work. Even thinking about work. And I usually just get like, you get hit and it's like, this is kind of dumb.

And then you focus, you're like, okay.

[00:17:47] Jay: Yeah, I need to focus on not getting hit in the face. I like that. well, very cool man. what are the next, you know, big things coming out for dataing? Were, are there big a, is there any features coming out? Are there any big, you know, like on campus, things you guys are doing? What are the big events coming up for you guys?

[00:18:01] Eric: Yeah, so we have a couple events at UCLA and USC, and I think it's funny to pick up against each other because like the way you can get an event at USC is like, Hey, I just spoke at this UCLA event. Do you happen to do this on? And vice versa. So we're gonna continuously do that. A big feature we are looking forward to is launching group dates type of thing.

So, and that's gonna just drive engagement, get people back. It's like, Hey, these five people in la this. Place really vibe. So you guys should check it out and we're gonna test that out. So I'm most excited about group dates. We're gonna start launching influencer campaigns and we wanna do this, I wanna do this more strategically in the sense, obviously not just paying like a big influencer, a lot of money 'cause that just doesn't work.

But what we were doing in the background is we, I've set up a bunch of accounts, like on personal accounts for this specific algorithm. So it's gonna start feeding me the up and coming content creators, like the ones with like five to 10 K followers who started. Get them on board before the algorithm picks that up

and then create a bunch of UGC from the app.

'cause like you said, the app has a bunch of stuff. It's like, how would I know there's a group feature? How would I know there's a connecting with relationship features? Like I would rather have people just creating content about that, posting that organically and just letting that flow. So I'm excited about that and I think that app has enough virality and again, kicking off the podcast store, which is why I reached out.

I do enjoy podcasts, so that's fun. But I think the app has enough virality where it can just get picked up and once it reaches a certain. Point, it's just gonna take care of itself.

[00:19:22] Jay: I love that. All right, dude. Well, this was great. I think we got some good notes here. it's always a pleasure. You're like the most chill guy I think I've ever interviewed or even maybe met in my life. So, you know, happy to call your friend proud of the new app coming out or that's already out. Let's stay in touch, man. Keep kicking ass, keep doing great stuff. And you know, how do people find the app if they wanna go download it right now.

[00:19:45] Eric: If they wanted to just go to the Apple App store and search a dataing. Which Lowkey is really annoying 'cause it all corrects to just other dating apps. But yeah, just search dataing or go to a website dataing.io and it links to the app.

[00:19:58] Jay: Beautiful. And can people reach out to you via LinkedIn if they want to know more about anything they heard about you specifically today?

[00:20:05] Eric: Yeah, no, I love meeting people, so just shoot me a DM on LinkedIn.

[00:20:08] Jay: Of course you do. You're just easy breezy, like Sunday morning, brother. All right, Eric, you're the best. thank you for

reaching out and it's always good to talk to you, brother.

Talk soon. Okay.

[00:20:16] Eric: You too, man.

[00:20:17] Jay: Thanks man.

[00:20:18] Eric: Cool. 

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