[00:00:28] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to the First Customer Podcast. My name's Jay Aigner. Today I am lucky enough to be joined by Umair Khan. He is the CEO and founder of Techamana, based over in, Langhorne, Pennsylvania, which is where I used to live. Umair, how are you buddy?

[00:00:41] Umair: I am doing good. Jay, how are you?

[00:00:44] Jay: I'm good just talking about the nice little transition from summer to fall that's on the way, so I'm excited for that. So, things are good, man. Things are good. So, I, at the first time I saw Techamana obviously, you know, you and I talked and we talked about Upwork and how it was the same or different or whatever. Gimme the just elevator pitch snapshot difference of like you guys versus Upwork. Like who, what's the difference? I mean, 'cause I think everybody kind of knows what Upwork is, you know, the gig freelance platform. How do you guys compare, and how are you different?

[00:01:14] Umair: Yeah. we are different in a way that, or the biggest difference I would say is that, anyone can create a profile on up, u still have to be verified and all, but, the skills are not, assessed by Upwork. So our platform, Techamana, what we do if someone applies to our platform as a freelancer, we actually take their interview assessment technical skills, are judged, not just technical skills.

We also look at their team fit and culture. If they are open to working, like, like a different, time zone also because some of the talent is, in different countries and, communication skills. So based on many different factors, we actually either approve them or deny them. So only the people who are pre-vetted and approved their skills are, assessed.

They are able to create a profile, on our platform. And then for our clients, we actually are providing this. 48 hour, matching guarantee. So once you post a position or a job on our platform, we would be able to match you with the three to five candidates, top candidates based on your requirements.

And then you can interview them and, start working with them. So that's the biggest difference.

[00:02:23] Jay: Got And what's the number one? reason why people aren't allowed on the platform, like what's the biggest failure point? If somebody's applying and they get denied.

[00:02:33] Umair: So there are many different factors. Technical skills, definitely. so we actually have, whiteboarding, like coding challenges. so people actually are, not able to pass those. there are also different, like for different types of roles. We also have, designers and, project managers, product managers, they have situation based, scenario based questions.

So we have a platform that we use to assess their skills, which also not only look at the, like in this day and age with AI and everything, it also looks at if they are cheating, if they have left their tab, it also records their screen. So we also factor that in if they have cheated or not, in their assessment.

Because it's not very difficult like today to pass an assessment like this. But, like, considering all of those factors, we usually, like reject an application.

[00:03:23] Jay: have you guys had any situations like that where like somebody got through and you, they weren't. Like vetted, probably. Tell me any stories about that. how did somebody get through or how did they cheat? Or like how, when, how'd you guys find out?

[00:03:36] Umair: Yeah. So that is actually, Not very frequent, but has happened, like a few times. So after their assessment, we also actually require them to, take a video assessment where they record a video, answer to a situation based question based on the role that they're applying for. But, after we have approved them in the platform, we also have a process where we go and recheck the profiles of the candidates who are, a part of our pool and match their skills with the.

Their resume and LinkedIn profile. So we have found like some of the people have mismatching information on their resume and LinkedIn profile. So those, although they have passed the assessment, not sure, like how, but we actually are able to, identify that they are actually kind of faking it, like their experience So that's also another, way we look at it and reject some of the candidates even after they're approved.

[00:04:34] Jay: So let's talk about you specifically. where did this idea come from, like, I'm assuming some sort of problem in your life or something you dealt with in your career. I mean, tell me kind of what's the genesis of Techamana and how did you get it started?

[00:04:47] Umair: Yeah. so I'm basically, I'm now a US citizen living here for last eight years, more than eight years. But I used to be, I, was born and brought up in Pakistan and over there I completed my education, in like, computer science. And also was working with, a couple of software companies who are US based, but they had offshore hiring teams.

so I was working, as a senior software engineer over there. But then I also saw this, platform, which was very similar to. What we do here at Ana, which actually gave me an opportunity to be able to earn very good, like income, even being in Pakistan. So the opportunity, like although I was working for a US company, but they actually do not pay very high wages to the offshore, developers.

So this platform was actually offering the opportunity to be able to earn like a very good, hourly rate. And then I applied and I got AC accepted for a $30 an hour, position. This is back in 215 or Yeah, 1516.

[00:05:53] Jay: Okay.

[00:05:53] Umair: So, I actually really like that opportunity, and I then realized that this is something that, could actually change, like the lifestyle of many different people.

Like to be able to, because I know I have worked with those two companies, software companies in Pakistan. I knew that there was talent, or I was actually the most, youngest employee, in both of my organizations. So everyone was more experienced. They were actually more skilled than me, but, I saw that they actually were not earning as I was earning at that time when I got the opportunity.

And then I actually also, got married to my wife, who is a US citizen, and then I came to us. But, That actually left a huge, like, question for me. like to be able to think about the people who would not have the same opportunity as the other people like here in us, like they actually are, on average, I would say 10 times more than what a person would be earning in, Pakistan or India, or like a similar country.

So, I always wanted to do something like this, but then when I came to US, I started working for a company, which I still work for. It's called, Simple Tire, and it's an, e-commerce technology platform, where we have, many different in-house applications that we build. And, we have partnered with similar platforms to hire developers from all over the world.

And I have seen the value that a person with, the right skills can provide. Versus a person who you just hired offshore, without, Like the correct, skillset. So, both of the things. So I have used the platform as a talent, also as a freelancer, and then over the last five, six years I've been hiring through these platforms.

Talent from all over the world. So I know like people from like different cultures and different continents and working different time zones and understand like what impact it could bring. So that's the whole idea. It came from that. like I wanted to build my own platform. Also trying to replicate some of the success that these platforms had, and see if I'm also able to, be a small part of it.

[00:08:02] Jay: I mean, I find it super interesting, kind of the economic. Landscape and kind of the disparity in rates. I mean, we hire people outta the Philippines all the time for what we do, and we take, you know, not gonna say take advantage, but like we built a business model around that difference in price.

So I'm curious, as somebody who's lived it on both sides, you have a unique perspective on it. what do people think? Like, how do they view that sort of work and those sort of wages? In Pakistan, if you're over there working and you know, is it because you get the opportunity to work with a US-based company?

is it just that wages are, like, that's what the wages are over there, so that's why people are okay with being paid that? Like what is it that, you know how, I guess, I guess the question is like, what is the people's perspective in Pakistan or, and in these countries that, you know, they're getting paid pennies on the dollar for somebody doing the same job in the United States.

How do people view that in Pakistan? Do they think it's just kind of just the way the world works? Are they, do they feel like it's unfair? Do they what? What is the thought of the people over there?

[00:09:08] Umair: So they definitely do not think of it as an unfair opportunity because even if they are getting paid a lot less than what, they might get paid in us, it is still like a good opportunity for them. like a lot of, people, in, like that part of the, world, like, you know, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and other countries, they actually, do not have a lot of other, opportunities to work.

so this is actually providing them an opportunity to get a job and work for like, US based or like foreign based companies and also not just, wages. It's also the opportunity, like you actually get to see how the companies are actually working. What are some of the practices that they are following, so you're actually getting that experience also.

So I think everyone actually sees it as a positive sign. And I also obviously was, like, comfortable in what I was getting, but I then I saw that this is actually an opportunity where I could actually get paid. Similar to what, like a person in, US or a different country would actually get paid.

So that's why I saw this as a, like, great opportunity, for myself. And I applied. I actually also,did not pass the assessment for the, like there were two platforms that I applied to. So I did not pass the assessment for one of them. And that's the platform which I'm now using as a client to hire since the last five, six years.

[00:10:32] Jay: Interesting. yeah, and I mean, what do you think, like, to your point, there's people more senior with you than you with more experience in Pakistan right now? That maybe you even worked with before that didn't make the jump that you made. I guess the question is what makes you different?

What drove you? Why are you somebody who, number one, lives in the United States now, but number two, while you were in Pakistan, understood how important that. Could be for you to make a shift into making the dollars and the amount, like there's something there about you that you realize it and other people, and I'm sure other people realize it, but I mean, as you know, there's a big difference between thinking of something and realizing something and actually making an action on it and doing something.

Why do you think. You were able to put a plan together to actually make it happen, and now you're sitting, you know, maybe 10 miles from me, in Pennsylvania, in the United States as opposed to, you know, thousands of millions of people that haven't made that jump from where they are. Is it just the opportunity?

is it the space that's available to do that? Is there's too many people and not enough slots? Like what do you think the answer is?

[00:11:35] Umair: Yeah.

so I actually, think that it's the, and it might not be, like very relevant for this day and age because internet is like a given thing. But I think the, like the whole invention of internet and being accessible to everyone in the world. That actually was the biggest turning point in my, life.

I would say early life because I actually was able to, like get access to like, university content from Stanford University. Like, I remember back in 210. I had this idea, or I was actually also, I kind of admit now, I was kind of a Apple fan boy. I used to really like, Steve Jobs and how he used to come and present in keynotes and I actually used to watch them live, but that was all possible because of internet.

And then, they actually come up with this platform, I think, after the second iPhone where the app store also was invented. And then there was an opportunity for you to be able to create iOS applications. But not a lot of people knew how to write code for that. So Apple, through iTunes, they actually provided you this, opportunity to be able to see the classes from Stanford University when they were writing code in Objective C and teaching you exactly how it is.

So I actually, there are many different ways you can use internet, but the invention of internet and being accessible to everyone that actually changed my, life. I actually took it, for the positive and was able to see that as an opportunity to be able to connect with the world and get the same, information as anyone could actually get anywhere.

so I think that was one thing I would say. actually, Like being able to, I realize that as an opportunity, being able to have access to the same amount of information or same information as anyone else.

[00:13:26] Jay: But I usually ask this question at the start, but I'm gonna get there now. Where in Pakistan did you grow up and do you think that had an impact on you being an entrepreneur and being a guy that is kind of going after some things that maybe people in the same area, or the same family, or the same, you know, groups, didn't do, I mean, you did, you made a big.

I mean, we all, you know, you think it's a big deal to like, you know, be an entrepreneur in America, but to come from somewhere else and then like continue that line is a pretty big jump. So, where did you grow up and do you think that had any kind of influence on you being kind of where you're today?

[00:14:01] Umair: Yeah, it, it does have an influence on, my, Like whole career. so I grew up in Karachi Pakistan. Karachi is the biggest city, the metropolitan city in Pakistan. And people from all over the, country actually come there for looking for opportunities. It's kind of like you can compare it to New York City for Pakistan.

it's also Port City and, near to the ocean and all that. So there are many different opportunities and we were actually, I was also fortunate enough to be growing up in a middle class. Kind of, family where I had access to, like good education and good, like college I went to for computer science and other things.

So, yeah, I think being in Karachi I was actually able to, I also had got early access to internet because it was not as widely available in other parts of the country. but being in, that city, I actually, was able to get access to a lot of, things that I would not have been able to if I was living in a different, area or a city.

And in terms of our family. So, I'm not from a family, like there are like, different,groups of people in Phan also. And, there are always these people who are known for doing businesses. So I'm actually not, from any such family. So I'm actually, you can say kind of the, one of the first few people, many people have tried to, like do businesses, but none, like successful.

I'm kind of trying to be the first one, and especially in tech, I was also the first one who got into computer science. in my family. like I did not have any seniors or mentors in my family who would guide me, but all because of internet, as I was saying, like I actually had access to internet. I was able to research and find, answers to everything.

So that, I think, played a very, critical part in my Lee,career and, childhood also.

[00:15:51] Jay: All right, man, so I'm gonna ask the question. Who was your first customer?

[00:15:55] Umair: So first customer for Techamana. this is actually, Like I used to work with a person, he was the CIO at my other like company, and, he left to work for a different company and the same time I was starting my, like this platform Teca one in 2023. So he actually reached out to me. he said that I, got to know that you're starting a platform and, I know that you are very good at what you do.

He actually really liked me, like in, we had a very good working relationship. So he said that, we are looking for a full stack developer. So if you can find any, Of those for us. So it is kind of, you can say it got accelerated for us because when I was starting the platform, it was not built and everything, so, it kind of accelerated.

So we actually had to build the platform for the client to be able to connect and pay, through the platform and all that. But it was through a referral. You can say, my former boss, he reached out to me and that's how we got the first client.

[00:16:56] Jay: Did you leverage, I'm not gonna sell, I guess I should just say cheap, offshore labor for building your platform.

[00:17:03] Umair: No.

[00:17:04] Jay: Okay. I'm just, I mean, I have to ask you, it's like an interesting question. It's like, well, did you came from there? Did you turn around and go, well, I'll just pay these guys $5 an hour.

'cause I know that's how make. How did you guys build the platform?

[00:17:14] Umair: so, using ai, so I'm actually kind of, and this is something that I've been saying to people recently. I'm kind of scared of my past. If, ai, the invent of AI was there, like 10 years ago, I would not be able to get the opportunity, or I might be doing something different at that time. But the, technology, especially this, like the tools that are available now, you are able to create these applications very quickly, right code.

Without, like, breaking a sweat basically. So I have, utilized, we are not marketing ourselves as like the AI technology, but we are leveraging all the tools that are available through AI and building the platform. Also through that, there's a term also,therefore vibe coding. So that's what I actually did.

so yeah, I built it myself, basically. That's what I'm saying.

[00:18:06] Jay: Okay. All right. how, I mean, gimme some idea of volume or like, of deals closed or like, gimme some sort of like metrics on how you guys are doing as far as growth and just what kind of numbers you guys are doing.

[00:18:20] Umair: So, yeah, so it started in 2023. and as I mentioned, it was kind of accelerated because we just were starting the company and got the first client. So we had that one client for. Very long time. last year, we started to expand and get, like business development people to be able to reach out to, outreach to LinkedIn and other platforms and get more clients.

So, that we started last year. So, currently as of right now, we are kind of targeting to be able to close with 30 clients by the end of the year. and and they also come and go because this is not like a fixed term contract. like it can be a short, couple of months, or could be, longer.

Also, the first client actually stayed with us for, more than one and a half years. But, yeah, that's what we are targeting right now.

[00:19:09] Jay: Yeah, and I mean, is it, how do you foresee with a project based business, you basically have to keep the funnel continually filled up, right? I mean, there's not many, I would assume. Long tail engagements. Anyway, I feel like we could talk for hours. I mean, we probably, we'll probably have a couple of these episodes, but,let me back up. how do you mo, how do you monetize the platform today?

[00:19:37] Umair: So we actually, and that's actually one of the benefits for using Techamana as a, talent or a freelancer, you are allowed to set your own rate. So we actually let the, person set their own rate, whatever they think that they should be getting paid. But we actually also put a disclaimer, don't set it too high that you would never match with any client.

But, we actually mark it up, by a percentage and then present that rate to the client. So the client actually only pays for, there's no subscription fee or anything, but they actually pay for the hourly rate that we are charging for a talent through our platform. But that pays our margin, which we put as a markup on top of what we are paying the talent.

[00:20:19] Jay: Is it the same markup, the same rate, or is it different depending on different factors?

[00:20:25] Umair: It is, consistent, mostly, but can vary, based on different situations if they are looking to hire multiple, like we have had situations where they're looking to hire multiple people also. so we actually sometimes, to get the client also, kind of change that, but.

[00:20:41] Jay: And does, is the talent pool mostly offshore or is it onshore or is it mixed? Like what's the percentage of split there?

[00:20:47] Umair: Yeah, so it is actually mixed. and most of the people that are part of our talent pool, are actually from US and Canada. So these are not all people who are looking to work full-time through our platform. Like they also have an option to work part-time or just a few hours. They might already be working at different companies also already, but if they have a few hours to spend, so based on the requirement of the client, client, sometimes a client actually wants.

People who are very experienced and already working in different companies, but if they can get their expertise, to work with them or as a consultation for like two, three months, that's also kind of an engagement. Most of the people are committed full-time and it's also the timing of the launch of the platform.

Like since 2023, it's not a lot of opportunities are there. But I think, based on everything, I believe that we are still doing pretty good and it's kind of still a new company. So we are expanding our outreach and, our footprint on the internet and other places to get more, customers 

[00:21:52] Jay: So I have probably two more questions, but this one,what would you consider to be failure criteria? Platform. It's like, what? What would it take? Like where would you have to get to where you're like, okay, I've had enough, whatever numbers aren't there, I'm gonna move on to the next thing.

What would that have to be for you to kind of shut down shop and move on?

[00:22:17] Umair: So as of right now, I'm honestly not thinking about that. But, so what I would say, failure criteria would be, The, like, I have actually started my, like this business very late. I would say I wanted to do this for a very long time and the thing that was holding me back was, like if I would be able to give it enough time and if, like the risk that you have to take, like the capital investment that you have to put in.

I actually wanted to be bootstrap for as long as possible so. one thing that I have realized while looking at other people who are doing businesses or are successful is that you only fail if you give up. So as of right now, I'm thinking that as long as I'm, putting my effort and commitment to the business, we are going to be successful and in business.

[00:23:11] Jay: but, have not thought about a failure scenario. I hope that I See, I've never asked that question before and I was hoping that you would have a similar answer to the one that you did. So that's, I think that's the right answer, right? I mean, I'm sure there's like some specific numbers or whatever that like, some people think of as being like, I'm the same as you.

Like, I don't know. I mean, I would never, if somebody asked me that question, I would just, I would probably may not even answer it, but I think like it's, yeah, you have the right mindset. Even if. The world came crumbling down tomorrow and you lost all your clients, then the next day you just figure out what the next step forward

is, right? So I, you know, it just, if you're all in, you're all in. So that's the, I think that's the right answer. If there is a right answer to the question, I think that's the one. All right. I have one last question for you. This is non-business related, non-tech and mono related. So I don't want to hear, having the best businesses in the world is the answer. if you could do anything on earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:24:07] Umair: That, would be education. So education, as I mentioned earlier in my answers, also like to be able to access, the information that is available throughout the world. being in Pakistan at that time and talking about one, like early two thousands, that actually changed my life and my career. So I would really want to work in, Like something where I can contribute to be able to make education accessible to everyone in the world. And if I know that I'm going to be successful, that's one thing that I always have in my mind. Even when I, came to us, some of the companies that I was applying to earlier were all education related.

I also got offers also, but, like this opportunity that I got, like it just made more sense, so I didn't go for it. But, yeah, I even had it in my mind earlier also when I came to us, like something to do in education, technology or helping make it, more accessible to everyone in the world.

[00:25:09] Jay: Beautiful. There's an altruistic answer for you. I love it. All right. well, Umair, I think you're fantastic. I don't think you're gonna fail. It sounds like you got all the right ingredients to being very successful, so congratulations on your success so far. if people wanna reach out to you directly about something they heard today, how do they do that?

And if they wanna find Techamana, how do they do that?

[00:25:29] Umair: so if they want to reach out to me, you can reach out to me through my email, techamana.com or, you can also connect me with, on LinkedIn as well. And on Techamana, you can actually just come to our website, Techamana.com. And there are many different, CTAs, which all take you to the hiring page.

So we would want you to fill up that form and, submit your interest in hiring through a platform.

[00:25:54] Jay: Beautiful. Man. Well, you're fantastic. Enjoy the rest of your week and we'll catch up again soon. All right. Thanks

[00:25:59] Umair: Thank you. Thank you so much.

[00:26:01] Jay: Thanks man. 

[00:26:01] Umair: Bye. 

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