[00:00:28] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer Podcast. My name's Jay Aigner. Today I am lucky enough to be joined by Josh Davidson, the CEO and founder of Chop Dawg, fellow Birds fan. Eagles fan, Phillies fan.

Any other fans? are you four for four?

[00:00:43] Joshua: I am a 4 for 4, unfortunately. 'cause, yeah, it's,

[00:00:46] Jay: It's 

[00:00:46] Joshua: God, good birds,

[00:00:49] Jay: Off sledding right now if you're not a Birds fan. So at least we have that to commiserate about, which they do kick off. well this won't be out before them, but they do kick off in a week from today, so I'm excited about that. Josh, where did you grow up and did that have an impact on you being an entrepreneur?

[00:01:03] Joshua: Probably gonna ask it, have it impact on me being a Philly sports fan, which I'm sure the answer is. Yeah. I grew up right outside of Atlantic City, New Jersey, so it's kind of suburb ish of Philadelphia, but it a lot of Philly influence. Right. and. I kind of, I guess the cop out answer for you is, did it shape me entrepreneurially? Yes. I also think a little bit of like family dynamics probably shaped a thing and being super naive and optimist, at the same time. But honestly, the biggest thing that probably shaped me and shaped growing up there is I was a, in very, impressionable teenager during that, great recession, if you

remember.

while ago with a lot less gray hair that I got now. And,if you, for those that don't know Atlantic City, it's a very much economy built off of entertainment and hospitality. And when times are tough, what's usually the first thing people cut out of their budget? Hospitality entertainment.

So I grew up where, childhood friends, things like that, their homes with foreclosed and their parents got laid off and they can't get a new job. And contractors would work at casinos, not to name anyone, but you can probably think of some people who would stick them on bills and declare bankruptcy. They have nothing to get,

[00:02:12] Jay: I have no idea who you're talking about. Nobody has any idea what you mean at all. I'm 

[00:02:16] Joshua: No one. No one. and that was very impressionable. Watching a lot of, candidly, I saw families go through divorces, sell their homes, foreclosure their homes, short cell homes. I saw my old man have to work three jobs on top of being a president at a casino to keep afloat because, you know, things like variable interest rates and stuff like that.

So. I think in a lot of ways that shaped a lot of entrepreneurial instinct because I think it, it almost created this like survival instinct and this like lack of trust of existing systems and processes and things of that nature. Because when you gravitate, and again, I was an area that was hit especially hard. I mean, I don't quote me on this as I'm on a podcast, but like, I'm pretty sure like home values have only just got back to what they were in oh eight, 2009, 2010, where I grew up around that area. Think about it, it's over like, it's almost 20 years. so it,it's it, yeah. I think there's that aspect for sure.

That definitely brought up the entrepreneurial side. yeah. Long-winded answer, for that, but I think that paints the picture pretty clear.

[00:03:22] Jay: True or false? You started Chop Dawg at 16.

[00:03:27] Joshua: Both true and false. I think I started, I the Chop Dawg entity. You know, today is 16, but I think I've been doing entrepreneurial pursuits that turned into what is Chop Dawg since it's at least 1314. So I would say true by the legal definition, probably

not true if you 

[00:03:41] Jay: Yes. All right. Well, what was the very first thing that you were paid to ship and who trusted you as a teenager with that?

[00:03:49] Joshua: paid the ship. Well, first thing I was ever paid to do. I actually built a fan site, funny enough for Six Flags, great adventure, and I was making ad revenue at 13, 14 on that. And I did sell that to Six Flags, before even 16. But first paying client was actually a com, a small business called, it's a Doggy Dog World, which was based outta Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey at the time. went literally 'cause I couldn't drive yet door to door. In the dead heat of summer where it's pretty damn hot and humid in New Jersey, if you don't know, in the middle of summer, still is. Today was then too, back then as well. spent like a month going door to door, awkwardly trying to sell small businesses, website designs during the height of a recession. And back when people used to be like, why do I need a website? I've been in business for 30 years, you know that people didn't think of it a necessity even in oh 8, 0 9, which is kind of mind boggling. honestly parallel like AI today, but that's a whole different side tangent. But it's, yeah, they were the first ones to say yes, spent a month with them, built their site, and during a recession where everyone's closing their doors, people are struggling 'cause they're not getting customers.

'cause customers have to move out and don't have money. I, quadrupled their revenue in a month time span after we went up. So it was kind of like a snowball going down a hill as far as all these people that said no to me and shut the door on me immediately coming back and being like. Can I hire you?

so it was, yeah, fun times many moons ago.

[00:05:14] Jay: What, how did you get that sale? Like, I mean, you don't have credibility at that age. I mean, what was your, like, how do you close a deal like that for as a kid, you know, with somebody trusting their business to you?

[00:05:28] Joshua: I'm still great friends with them today. Michael Baker and Brian Jackson are the name of entrepreneurs that run it. Basically like my second dads at this point, all these years later,I think I, they might probably saw something in me that reminded me of them. That's maybe my tenacity. maybe I just didn't take no for an answer. again, naive optimism is probably the word I always like to use that especially those early going days where you just don't know better and you're too stubborn to know anything different. Right. I think it was a cocktail combo of that. I, I also probably severely probably under quoted them probably. And they made it so like, hell yeah, I had a couple hundred bucks. What's the worst that happens? Right?

Like, so who, who, knows? It's probably a cocktail combination of all these things.

[00:06:09] Jay: Where did the name Chop Dawg come from and the logo and all this Stu and the branding, like where did this come from?

[00:06:15] Joshua: That's a loaded question and there's probably like 20 questions just asked there. If you really break it down. Shop dog was because I'm terrible at names. Me and, there was a guy named Kagan that at the time was gonna be the original, one of the founders of me, childhood friend. We couldn't decide on the name, top Dog and Chop Shop, and we said we're spending way too much time on the name, so we just went down the middle and that's it.

That there's no other crazier story than

[00:06:40] Jay: I like that. That's a great story. I mean, I think all founders who've had their business for a while maybe have some, you know, not regret, but just maybe wish they had done. Like, I mean my name, my company name's a bunch of letters. Like, people still try to pronounce it and it's great and I love that they, I didn't even think about it, but it was just, lemme get something on paper as quickly as possible.

[00:06:59] Joshua: Let me be candid. Our name is one of our differentiators of why, you know, we obviously don't do website design in 2025. We do app development and software development, some really cool complex stuff. fortunate. This is our name, even though I'd be embarrassed about it otherwise, because it's. My industry's really boring and clean. Like it's, I don't wanna throw any of my competitors under the bus, but you Google it there, there's some very boring, mundane names. And then here we are, this audacious, nonsensical, yet short and sweet name. It's people remember us because of that, which is such a competitive, same thing, even our color scheme.

Like this is a very old logo behind me that a client gave me as a gift many years ago. that's a whole different story. We've gone for different iterations, but we've always used like a very vibrant screen. Our industry's usually more traditional professional, right? Like those deep blues or stuff like that. The thing is, I've learned when anyone zigs use zag, it's such a, competitive advantage. And I think again, it was more through pure tenacity that this exists that way. 'cause there was no existing playbook we were adopting, we were kind of making our own. And honestly even today, man, like we launched our new site, like a updated version of our site and our brand January, February this year, even the last month, like our marketing team has like, look at these three competitors basically just ripping off what we've done or changing the way we articulate our services, and all of a sudden they're adopting it. like trying to say the same thing. So I try not to compare us ever to anyone in our space because honestly, I. My hypothesis is then you are immediately always playing catch up or not being authentic. Be genuine, just be you. And also you should understand your market and who you're targeting better than anybody else should anyway. So if you're always making that, the full, the, like, the goal, the forefront, everything kind of clicks. So, yeah. And you know the logo behind me, if you're talking about that's one of our original logos. This was a gift. we built an app for a startup that got exited and the man took Ben Franklin's autobiography. Hired an artist named Blake Jameson, who painted our original logo at the time over at gate SAG versus as great backdrop. our logo today is definitely an iteration of, what is that original logo, but probably more 2025 ish when you look at it now, when you see our branding today.

[00:09:25] Jay: All right. Talk to me about who your customer was when you first started versus who it is today and what are like the major, and I'm sure there is a million answers to this question, but gimme the major pivots you've made. I don't even like that word. but the iterations of Chop Dawg over the years.

What are the big ones and what, you know, where you really made a complete change in what you were doing?

[00:09:46] Joshua: And we're not. The Chop Dawg of 2009 is not the Chop Dawg of 2025. 2009. We were doing website design for small businesses. Right. Yeah, we still actually do websites, but for the complex software and stuff we build like clients. Today we're building apps and software from Fortune 500 to government contracts, to household brands.

So like assuming Go Birds, a lot of people here are listening to, or like a Philly area, right? Like Jefferson Health has been a client of ours. Wawa's been a client of ours. Mr. Softy has been a client of ours. Six Flags has been a client of ours. Philadelphia Eagles has been a client of ours. Big Brothers Big Sisters has been a client of ours.

I'm sorry, university of Pennsylvania has been a client of ours. I'm sure I'm missing people. Go. University of Delaware is a client of ours. Again, there's probably so many local, I'm so sorry for those that I just did not name Drop. I love you all equally, but it's just going off the top of my head here. But that's we are building very complex technology for people like consumer based apps, software, mobile apps, web apps, wearable apps. Artificial intelligence is something we've been doing beyond just the AI wave. Right now we've been doing cryptocurrency for God knows how long we've been doing things on the blockchain. Thanks for, I'm not gonna say the name of the Amazon device listening to me, but things like that. Google Chrome for your Roku tv, for Apple tv, our play, like anything in anywhere that's software exists, we do. We are the company that does that for people.

[00:11:20] Jay: So how do, I mean, if you do so much, how do you, how are you good at all of it and how do you refine what it is that you guys do to make sure that you're kind of locking in on some specific things instead of everything under the sun?

[00:11:34] Joshua: I actually don't think we do that much. As it might sound like a lot shares a similar code base or infrastructure or same hygiene like mobile app and web app development can be built up for React to React native, which is a framework of each other. So it allows you to reuse components, things like that, like. Great ui ux fundamentals is universal, just depending on if your goal is touchscreen interface versus keyboard, a mouse and a track pad. so a lot of what we do, I think is super con consistent and at least the way in my head, the way it works, my brain, it's actually very much overlaps in the Venn diagram. Obviously there's nuances in industries we do. I joke that we're industry agnostic, but I actually think that's, again, flexing our muscle here. When everyone z we zag. I think it's one of our biggest strengths because okay, we see the strategy working with a Fortune 500 in a hotel and hospitality space. We can apply that framework, that playbook we learned to the startup in healthcare that has never thought about overlapping this type of strategy in this type of field. and it works effectively. 'cause at the end of the day, all we're doing is building things for real people, for humans. And if you learn strategy works in one industry or one form factor, you can usually replicate it or slightly modify it in another way. So. I think us being industry agnostic has been a huge trend for us. I mean, in dog years, we're old as hell at this point, so we have 17 years of what, not just what to do, but what not to do. And I think that also applies into the logic and what we do. But yeah, I think at the end of the day, it all rhymes.

So that's why I don't think it feels like a lot, like we're not doing hardware development or crazy stuff like that, which gets out of our jurisdiction. You know, I, we're often not like a marketing company, so we're not doing pay per click or SEO or things that. Could naturally feel like something you would wanna do.

In our space, we're very product and brand and experience driven, which is, I think the lane we just, it's the one that excites me. It keeps me up and keeps me energized. So it's just focusing in what we're good at.

[00:13:26] Jay: So how do you get new customers? What are doing today? I mean, I'm sure.

Sure. I mean, I, this is gonna, this is gonna make your revenue times 10, I'm sure. But other than this, you know, what are you doing? How are you, ma, how are you landing all these high profile deals? Like is it networking, like you're as off over the years or what is it?

[00:13:48] Joshua: well, definitely more than half of my revenue comes from repeat business or referrals. You work with a company, they love you. One person there leaves goes to another company. Usually they were like, I need to keep working. Josh Chop Dawg, let's go. I can't tell you like how many people we deal with that.

That's definitely the biggest foundation I have is repeat business referrals. 92% of my clients repeat with us. It's a stat I take so much pride in like almost nothing else matters to me than just people being happy with us and keep working with us and trusting us. Like that's, I tell people we don't have a legal fiduciary duty like some industries do, but it's the only way I've always operated my clients. It's the only way I just genuinely believe We've stood the test of time. But I, the best tidbit, I'll give anyone listening to this right now, and I kind of hinted at it earlier, like how back in 2009 people were like, I don't need a website. So there's a thing called geo. So if SEO is for Google and search results, GEO is for LMS chat, GBT, claw Rock three llama, everything else in between. I can't tell you how much work we get referred by for chat CBT referring us. A hundred percent. we put a lot of time and energy into that. See Google first time and at least in my adult lifespan is having this lunch rate. You see, if someone's searching for an app development company, they're more likely now to go and chat to like I app idea who should I talk to than they are to go and Google and just search top app development companies. The chat will also recommend and will make it more personalized. So Geo is unbelievable in this regard and it's such the early days that. Most of my competitors aren't taking this seriously. No one's really taking it that seriously, except the few people that know. So I have a lot less competition. 17 years of data to back it up.

Which language learning models freaking love because they want credibility. They want influence, they want a reference that is anyone listening to this? If they're, and I don't care if they're a damn small business listening to this, if they're not putting the time and money and energy into doing this right now, they're tying a hand behind their back trying to compete in the year 2025 or 2026. And by the time they figure it out, everyone else is gonna be competing there. And then they've also lost the moat because you can have a competitive advantage always be ahead of the curve.

[00:15:59] Jay: But what if you don't have a bunch of content to lean on for that? Right? Because I know that's, it's still similar in the sense that it pulls from blogs and. Case studies and websites and back links and shit. Like how, if you, if let's say you're starting out today and you're a small bus business in Philly and you want to get in on the geo wave, like what do you recommend people start doing?

[00:16:19] Joshua: Content, content. I guess like, well, I don't want the just you start a podcast, transcribe that podcast in the text, put out a ton of different content, making sure it matches the niche of what you're doing. Like go look at our blog. Our blog is not is as I, I'm very candid about it. we write about topics people are searching about. Alright, what's the difference between React native versus Native Act development? People who are looking for companies like us are gonna be researching these type of things, like what does it cost to build an app? My

[00:16:48] Jay: But just pause right there. So that's a great point. So what I'm gonna, how does somebody find that out? How do they find out what their customers are searching for so they can apply that to geo down the line? And don't have to give, don't gimme away all this, you know, the, I'm not asking for the secret sauce.

So just in general, generally speaking.

[00:17:06] Joshua: The secret sauce isn't complex, man. Just like a lot of things in life, the fundamentals are actually really easy. It's just people like to overcomplicated. The honest answer to your question is if they have to ask, what is my target audience searching for? My question is, are they in the right business? If they need to ask that question and not already know it, like I just hate to be so blunt, but let's be real. I know my audience so intimately because it's what I eat. I live, I greet. I know what it's like to be an entrepreneur. I need an app development company, or I'm a C-level executive. I'm a CTO or a Chief product officer, and I need to add people to my team real time because I'm falling over budget or falling behind a competitor trying to do it. Put yourself into shoes of your, just your customer you're targeting and ask what the hell would they do if they go on Google or chat ccb t what are they doing? And reverse engineer off that. And if you need to ask, well, I don't know what they would do. I think my response would be. You are not gonna be successful in whatever the hell you're doing then like, 'cause who are you serving?

If you can't answer these basic fundamental que, like, this should be an intuitive exercise. Like, it's actually hard for me to articulate some of these things because it's so intuitive. It's just so my brain cells just know it because it's all I do every day and who I work with. So, yeah, I'll just say if someone's asking that question and my thing is like, you're probably very smart at what you do. You'll probably pick the wrong industry to be in if you gotta ask these questions and don't know these answers. Instinctly.

[00:18:27] Jay: I, I agree. I agree with that from a perspective of somebody. And I also take a lot of pride in kind of understanding who our customers are and what they want and how they look for things. And I mean, I wouldn't be as good as you would probably reverse engineering that, but to some degree I think we're on the same page.

I think from that perspective it's easy to say that or think that, but you have to remember also. You can sell shit without knowing who your customer is. Right? And I think that's where a lot of people get into traps is like that. You can have some success and you build a business up and then you go, well, what the fuck do I do now I'm out of, I'm out of my friends and family network.

I'm out of my immediate network. Like what do I do now? 

[00:19:09] Joshua: I mean, that 

[00:19:10] Jay: people get stuck in that space.

[00:19:13] Joshua: could that be true? Yes. It's never been a playbook I think I've ever done. Like if I. I think it's hard for me to visualize that layer of like, I'm selling stuff without understanding what I'm selling, or I'm just selling and people are buying like,

[00:19:29] Jay: Walk down. Walk down, 

[00:19:31] Joshua: oh, I do, 

[00:19:31] Jay: or walk. You see all these, I walk through all the time. I'm like, who is starting a business for this 

[00:19:37] Joshua: but my, I think like how much longevity does it happen, let alone 

[00:19:41] Jay: I, totally agree. I, 

[00:19:42] Joshua: how does that. 

[00:19:43] Jay: that, 

[00:19:43] Joshua: Cite you if I don't even know who the audience I'm targeting, like what? Why would I get up in the morning if I didn't genuinely believe I can help these people? I understand their needs and I think I can offer a better service or a better product than anybody else in my space could do if I can't. So I guess to me it's also maybe as much commentary in my own DNA in my own, what drives me. It's like if I'm just selling thing for the sake of selling it, and maybe someone's. isn't that gambling at that point? It's not even investing. Like I'm basically like it's already selling is still probability, so lemme not misconstrue. I might get 50, let's just call it leads in a traditional sense of people who express interest. Let's be real. Half of those people aren't actually decision makers or actually serious about it or have the money to do it. I get it. That's so already, it's like a batting average. So I know I'm gonna have to, a 500 batting average is the best I can possibly do. Even then, I'm not gonna be everyone's cup of tea or maybe the service offering I'm doing or something like that. So you're gonna lose part of that. So my thing is how do I increase my probability for the highest possible batting average based off of what I'm getting for out amount at bat I can't understand who I'm selling or what I'm doing, or honestly just as important to me is care about what I'm doing there and how I can help, let alone back it by something I know, like I know weird. Just really damn good at what we do. I mean, I just, I know it, we've done it. I've amount of companies we've exited or seen scale for millions of revenue or literally changes of lives we use, like we did a stat, it's really stupid. I think it was something like, half of all Americans use a product we build every day, and half of all Americans in the United States use something we have touched every single day. So I have a lot of that behind me that says, yeah, I, I can also sell because I have conviction behind me. If I didn't have these things, I think it, it's, I don't know how to be successful. Now, sure, you make argument. Well, what if you're new and you have that extra evidence? Okay, but do I still believe I can offer the best of what I do?

Do I think I offer the right price point and that's fair to do what I can do? Do I understand the need of what I'm offering to who I'm wanna offer to? I can't answer those. Like maybe you can get short term success, but in beginner's luck. But how the hell are you going to. Last as long as you do. And I guess that's why I have the gray hair to prove what I've done for 17 years because I think I answered those fundamentals.

If I have the fundamentals nailed down, you have longevity because of it. And I'm not even saying it's even easier. Like MySpace is really interesting right now. Not MySpace, the social network. I'm talking about MySpace industry. You know, I compete now with tools like Base 44 and Repli and Lovable and all these co generating things.

And they're actually awesome. I love it because what they did is art. Our lower clientele that they don't really have a big budget, has something they can do more cost effective. And then when they outgrow it, they realize how much more value we produce at the next tier.

And it actually makes a better, more educated client.

And it makes my clients even more effective, more educated, more sophisticated, which means they even know what we're doing is even better for them than someone who has anxiety or stress or they're budget conscious and don't realize what they're getting into. So it's awesome. I just think it's like a rising tide rises all boats type of mentality.

So. Long-winded. I just, I don't know how someone could be successful is, I guess my answer. I'm sure someone can prove me wrong,

[00:22:57] Jay: I, well, we got to where I was trying to get to. I mean, that's the answer, right? It's like you just kinda laid out the passion. You know, is number one. But like all these other things like experience, you have the confidence because you've done it so much. you know the space in your customer really well, and you're trying to sell something that is actually gonna improve the lives or business of the company you're working with, right?

So like those are all. The things now, just to wrap it back around, let's say, you know, you know who you're selling at, you know what kind of questions they're asking on, you know, Google to find people like you. How do they jump into the geo game today? So they're not behind next year, is

[00:23:44] Joshua: Same answer,

[00:23:44] Jay: it? Is it just making content?

[00:23:47] Joshua: quality substances, qual content, but yes, but also not all content's created equal. Like I, I was gonna sound like a marketing person here, and this is something that goes outta my deck, but basically. All the copying content I wanna put out there should relate to what my target demographic's looking for or is gonna give them value. So if I get on a podcast and we're gonna talk Eagles football, hell yeah, I'm down. Let's go. Go birds, cowboys suck. That's not gonna gimme clients chat. GBT is not gonna be putting me as a credible source for someone who knows football, even though third generation season ticket older, huge Eagles fan. Of course I know football.

So ChatGPT, go screw yourself when it comes to that. But that's besides the point. It's just that content's not getting me. What my target demographic is. So you need to be very focused as far as what that is. And then you wanna be beyond the most transparent, detail oriented, talking to language that their audience is gonna resonate. Language learning models is basically like a spider web of reinforcing that type of content over and over. So you just want to have that type of reiteration that goes into it. So like if I wanted to be the best taco truck in Philadelphia, I would want all my copy to be about like what goes into making the best tacos. Goes into running a taco truck, what goes into the best locations to do a taco truck? Like when's the best time to get tacos on? What day of the week? I'm sure it's Taco Tuesday. What time, what? What cross energy of other brands could be coming to bring in my taco truck? All this stuff. So when people search and they go onto ChatGPT, or Google, we're gonna do ChatGPT here, it's like, I'm really hungry. Where's the best taco truck in Philadelphia? It's going to scouting internet. Find these key references to my taco truck. I'm gonna be one recommended. That's it.

[00:25:27] Jay: Well, and again,I'm glad that we kind of dug into this a little bit and I feel like we could probably have a hundred episodes and we'll definitely have you on for some more to talk about some more stuff. But what I do find interesting is that you're not a marketing guy, but you are responsible for that function at your agency, right.

And it's like at the end of the day, like you've made yourself enough of an expert in the field in that department that you can attack the market of Philadelphia and make sure you're showing up.

[00:25:56] Joshua: I think as the leader of a company, I need to have a pulse on everything and be intelligent enough to know what I'm talking about, but also I have to be intelligent enough to know what the hell I'm not talking about or what I don't know. So I'm the dumbest person in my own company.

So there's on my marketing team, like I'm gonna give him a shout outs like Rob and Sean and Michelle, and Yuri, and Brian and Leo. They're all the real brains and I'm sure if they were here right now, they'd be like, Josh, you're being a dumb ass, but let's actually break this down and talk. And I'm sure I'm a hundred percent sure of it, so, but I have to know what enough to know what I'm talking about in these areas so then I can make competent decisions like the same thing we're talking about sophisticated clients. My dream is I really try to educate every single person I work with. I don't expect them to learn how to program or design or things like that. When they're done or they're working with us, they're gonna know how Figma works. They're gonna understand what is good design, art, and science behind really conversion and engagement. What makes a great brand, why something's gonna translate well for React Native versus React and work agnostically on mobile versus tablet versus desktop. They're gonna understand how leveraging tools like Cursor and Copilot and even chat CCB t lets us save them money and save them time and build a more effective product. They're gonna understand things like they never heard of D term, API before. Something like that. Not only know what that is, but why it's such an important fundamental of what we're doing. And of course I have some very sophisticated clients like we work with CTOs and stuff where that is me like explaining to someone like basic algebra.

I'm sure if I had to explain that to them. But my point being, the more educated, you can also get your target demographic. When you're good at what you do, the more they can snuff out, let's just call it, is bullshit noise from substance and quality. That's another reason why I think it's also a rising tide rise all boats.

If you can do that to your target demographic, they're gonna know you care about them more. They're gonna know you can relate to them more. They know you're gonna solve their problems more. And they're also gonna know when someone's trying to blow some smoke up their butt. Right? Like there's other way. And I have a lot of that in my industry. They, you know, how many companies come up, we'll try to compete us and they're gonna go and close tomorrow. Like it happens every day. Like it's. My industry is full of trying to tell someone, Hey man, I can do this for a third of the cost and half the timeline. The Chop Dawg's saying, and people, you know, they're, I always tell people, pick good, fast or cheap.

Which two are you planning to pick for? people think they can do all three. That's not how it works. They go, they get burned. They come back six months later like, I should have just listened to you. That happens all the time still. So the more you can educate people, even if they don't work with me, at least you help. Stem from getting bullshitted and dealing with crap and dealing with these m night shamala plots in our, a Philly reference here, right? That could come up.

[00:28:39] Jay: What's your favorite M Night Sha movie?

Jesus. why would you ask me that on a podcast? I like to ask things that make you think,

[00:28:46] Joshua: apparently

my brain. 

[00:28:51] Jay: I've got mine locked in. I got mine locked and loaded. Yeah, science is the one for me.

[00:28:54] Joshua: my brains going into signs. That's what I think I'm

[00:28:57] Jay: We watched the Village again with my, I was explaining the plot to my 12-year-old the other day, and he is like, he's like, that's the only, he's like, well, what happens at the end? I'm like, well, I'm not gonna tell you if to watch it.

And then we watched it. It was great. 

[00:29:07] Joshua: So here's the issue of the village is I think by the time it came out, everyone knew N Knight's all about twists. So you're expecting the

[00:29:13] Jay: You're expecting it. Right,

[00:29:14] Joshua: the first time you ever watch signs. No one knew that was his gimmick, that he is

really good at. 

[00:29:18] Jay: Yeah. Or, sixth sense, like nobody had like, they were like shocked that he, you know, 

[00:29:23] Joshua: I see six sense. If it

wasn't signs, I think it would've gone to six sense. So it was gonna be one or the other when I was thinking

[00:29:30] Jay: signs, tick all the box for me, for some reason. It's a 

[00:29:32] Joshua: Well, it's I love the sci-fi elements of it. I love, I mean, the acting is phenomenal, right? Like,

although what's,the Unbreaking No, which is the original. Bruce will one that he is basically like origin for him being like a superhero. That one's pretty good. Too

[00:29:48] Jay: I think it was unbreakable, wasn't it? Wasn't that the one?

[00:29:51] Joshua: Glass. And then they did, and then they, what's it called with Split, which is actually not a bad movie, ended up being like a

[00:29:56] Jay: yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Joshua: I've de twist there for someone. 'cause that was the twist being like a sequel.

So sorry if someone's ever seen it.

[00:30:05] Jay: It was, anyway, he's another Phil, he's another Pennsylvania guy, so it's fine. All right. Well let's wrap here. I have, we're definitely gonna do this again and we're definitely gonna maybe see each other Thursday at the Eagles game. I have one final question for you, not business related, not Chop Dawg related.

I don't want to hear that you wanna have the most impactful business in the world, but I do want to hear if you could do anything on earth. He knew you wouldn't fail. What would it be?

[00:30:31] Joshua: That's a great question. If I could do anything on earth and couldn't fail, there's an ego driven answer. And then there's actually one that I think is more caring ego. One is, man would've been awesome to be an actual professional athlete, or something

like that. Or, 

[00:30:44] Jay: God, it would be great, wouldn't it?

[00:30:45] Joshua: so there's probably an ego. One of like, and I work a lot of athletes, so I'm very envious of, of like, man, I just wish I could feel that, like a level of adrenaline you probably felt when you step on the field like that. Funny enough, my call here, top of the hour won't name who is a former Super Bowl MVP. So, yeah,I tell 'em all the time how envious I am of like, man, I wish I could hate to see that feeling. But honestly, so I'm on the governing board for Big Brothers Big Sisters. I volunteer for what's called hopeworks. My biggest thing is I was very fortunate at a younger age where I had like a lot of mentors and infrastructure and things in place that, guided me on my way that. You know, as you get older you realize how very few people, I think, had that fortune of luxury. I had. Not saying like I grew up in 1%, like my parents were working class.

I grew up in a middle class suburbia, but I had opportunities and infrastructure and things that still so many people don't have. And I don't know, man, there's lack of empathy. I observe more than ever in so many people. Maybe it's 'cause I'm older, maybe. 'cause the Internet's brought out the worst in us.

Probably two things are probably both true at the same time, if we're being real about it. I would just, if I had endless money around endless time, I wish I could just be given back and things like that. Or building things of infrastructure at scale that just helps those that need and things most like big Brothers, big Sisters helping, like kids that don't have mentors or positive parental figures or having ability for influence just, it drives me so much.

Hopeworks is unreal, man. Guides like that, Dan and Brad and everything they're doing there where they actually help kids learn how to do programming and design and get them actual six figure jobs when they become adults, like companies like Vanguard and Aramark and Comcast. And the economic impact that makes, let alone lives is changing, let alone it helps build families and it's surreal.

so I already do as much time as I could do there, and I always feel guilty that I'm never giving enough time there because. Being a married man, having to run the business day to day, trying my best to get eight hours of sleep a night. Like there's already so many competing, conflicting things already trying to take my attention.

But yeah, if I couldn't fail, I'd just be putting all my time and energy and money and backing to that stuff. No doubt about

[00:32:50] Jay: Yeah, you can't fail. You can't fail in this scenario. So I love that. It's a very, honest answer and I got that from you when we talked last time. I think you're a good dude. I think you do a lot of incredible work in Philly. I think you know, I know a lot of people that know of you and have Chop Dawg and have nothing but.

The highest praise for you guys. So, keep up the good work, man. It was good seeing you. Thanks for being on. Let's catch up again soon, and, go birds. All right, see you, Josh. Thank you, brother. See you man. 

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