[00:00:28] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer Podcast. My name's Jay Aigner. Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by Matt Cullerton, founder and president at Mavric Tech CEO and founder of Apso. I did say it right, Matt. How are you buddy?

[00:00:40] Matt: Doing great, man. How are you, Jay?

[00:00:43] Jay: So let's get a couple things outta the way. who is your favorite QA agency and why is it JDAQA? Just kidding. I'm not gonna ask you that. Secondly, this is your first podcast, so I'm very excited. This is great. This is great. I love being people's, you know, first podcast and I'll frame it, say it that way specifically so nobody gets confused of who's first I like to be.

All right. Matt, we met in San Diego through seven CTOs. Went out and got tacos, drank some beers. just really enjoyed our time together. And then we got to meet up later and I heard more about the business and I talked to, you know, some people that work with you or for you or whatever. And, everybody loves you, man, and it's,I, I really enjoyed, kind of our first time together and felt like we were kind of best friends that were back together for the first time.

So, thank you for being on today. And, tell me where did you grow up and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur?

[00:01:33] Matt: Ooh, great question. so I grew up in, what I always thought was just a little town, called Reston, Virginia, which has turned into be like the. Data center or next to the data center hub of, I guess the world, maybe if not all of North America, but just outside of dc you know, ha to the Washington football team, as you wear your awful hat.

and, yeah, what did, I don't know how that contributed. I don't know. I was, I dunno if it's the place I grew up or the people I grew up around. My brother had a newspaper route. he is also an entrepreneur. and I helped him with that at an early age. So I kind of knew what it was like to hustle and make some money. And yeah, from there, kind of just odd jobs, worked in restaurants through, high school and college, which I always attribute. and I tell my kids like, that's the best way to learn how to work hard. you know, when,in our roles working in tech, supporting clients, Yee, can you curse on this

[00:02:34] Jay: I say, whatever the fuck you want, man. Nobody's listening. This is like, it's like the old Mitch Hedberg. It's like you can curse in the woods too. go, go for, go for it, 

[00:02:42] Matt: Uh,you, you eat a lot of shit sandwiches

in this, uh, career. You know, you learn how to take a shit sandwich real easy, at, in the restaurant

industry.being, being in service, you know, at the small stakes like that, I think teaches you a lot. so I always encourage any young kid, to start there at least as a part-time gig.

It's, it's gonna humble you. and I'm humbled by the way, by the nice things that you said at the top of the podcast.

[00:03:07] Jay: Well, you're, you're a humble guy. You're a very nice guy. I, I, I could, I could go on for hours, but, what was the first business you actually started?

[00:03:16] Matt: okay. So when I, college I got a job at in a defense contractor, Northrop Grumman. no offense to them, but it was, it was not very taxing and it was a lot of,it was fairly boring. doesn't move quickly in that level of a business. Um, but I was making, you know, a salary for the first time. and so. Hustling on the side, just hanging out with friends. And I had this one buddy who, is in, graduated, as a audio engineer from Susquehanna University. and. He was a DJ and he wanted to get into making an album. He was big in the Baltimore, down tempo kind of club scene. and he made this record, wanted to distribute it.

and so I loved the album and so, I said, Hey, I'll go to cd baby.com. I'll pay for us to press up some CDs. We did that, and we started a music label. called, district Bohemia. It was this combination of DC and Baltimore. You know, if you know about Natty Bowes, the, yeah. So it was an homage to DC in, in natural Bohemia. And, we did that for about three years. We would, that was like our side hustle. We'd go from, DC up to Baltimore to Philly, unfortunately, and up to New York. and there was a big, like House Party in Philly that actually was run by, Diplo

and some other, people who are kind of now more notable. there was a big rap group called Spank Rock that was out of there. they, they had one record that Diplo was like their main dj. anyway, they were really good for a minute. So we did that for three years. That was like, I got a taste of. Again, eating a lot of shit sandwiches.

'cause the music industry is hard. but you also get like the energy of you're building something, you're part of something from the ground up and you see like when you, the lows are really low, but the highs man, nothing gets higher than those highs.

and so that was exciting. That was really invigorating.

And so from there I went on to kind of be balanced and always have. Like a stable day job, but I was always looking at like, what's the thing that I can start? andI eventually got there.

[00:05:28] Jay: Beautiful. Is there anything you think about today, semi-regularly from those, those early days? Is there any, the kind of things you kind of think back to like, oh, this was, I used to deal with the same shit and I know I, you meant, you know, eating shit from, from different sources. But is there anything kind of positive business wise that you draw on from those, those years of kind of hustling and grinding and kind of continue to do the same thing you're doing now, but just in a different space?

[00:05:56] Matt: Yeah. well, yeah, I do think about it quite often. 'cause now that I live in Nashville, like

I'm surrounded by the music industry and I, you can, tell people or about, How much I don't want to be in that space anymore. as much as I love music and I actually, I adore the idea of the industry, man.

it's tough. I think the biggest thing that I took away from that time is really around people and how to work with people. I remember asking my dad, was a captain in the Navy and led a lot of people, you know, for a long time. you know, what was his sort of take on leadership? Especially when you're dealing with people who are, you know, just come from different walks of life, but also, and so that shapes how they are as their adults, but also like different age groups, so you have different levels of maturity. and, you know, he taught me something that I took. From, and I used at that time, and I've taken the whole way, which is really around just fairness. So the processes will change, the people will change, systems will change, but how you operate within them, if you have this sort of central treatment of others and around those processes and policies of fairness, that'll guide you the whole way.

and there's. It's been some tough, professional situations I've been in where that's been the only thing that's kind of got me through it. It's like,

Hey, I know this. I don't want to go, I don't wanna go into work tomorrow, but as long as I'm like treating everybody fair and consistently, that'll get me through that tough situation.

And it has.

[00:07:28] Jay: Do you think he meant, your view of fairness or the people's view of fairness that you're leading?

[00:07:35] Matt: That's a great question. that's a great question. So, you know, being in the military. You have rules that are always around you and they're well understood, or at least should be well understood by both the people you lead and the leader, and they're documented. And so, yeah. I think that he, what he meant is fairness to those rules. So, you know, you don't show favoritism to someone by breaking that rule in one person's favor, or, you know, negatively affects somebody else in, in a different way, you know, in the opposite direction. So, um, what that's taught me is. If there isn't a aligned understanding of what fairness is between the person you're leading and the leader, then how can you be fair?

So the fair aspect is there is, okay, let's find alignment first. What are we even talking about? What's the policy here? What's the system like? What's the thing that we can say fairness is even anchored to?

And it's fair too. The pun, but to get to that place first as a baseline, and then you can move from

there.

So that's the, that's always been my understanding of it, is find that alignment first and then you can anchor to that going forward.

[00:08:54] Jay: How do you do that with your guys in a dev shop?

[00:08:58] Matt: That one's, that was hard. And I don't know how it is with qa, but but certainly with Dev, you know, there's. I'll just say it. There's a lot of primadonnas, you know, and that's born out of, you know, the type of personality it takes to be a, an engineer, but also the industry that has formed around engineering that, you know, there's a lot of scarcity and demand.

And so, you know, people know that,

[00:09:24] Jay: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:25] Matt: I drive some pretty strict policies and by that, what I mean is not strict in that they're like really regimented, down to like how you clock in and clock out. But more around, you know, we have certain values. We built policies around those values and how they, and like what it means to show up for those values. and so we just, we use those as the anchors to be fair around, It becomes different for each client because now you're, that client has their own set of policies, their own procedures and things, and so you need to make sure that it's extensible to that. but we anchor around, some pretty, you know, what we feel are pretty strong core values and that, that we try to drive fairness around.

[00:10:10] Jay: I like that. That's a great answer to the question. Nicely done. All right, let's talk about. Something you're probably not expecting me to talk about. Let's talk about personal brand. I'm curious, you know, you're the face, I'm sure there was probably some hesitance along the way at some point of being the face.

As is the case with a lot of dev agency owners, they're usually tech guys, they're smart. They like to kind of just build these systems and like not be the, this like showman out front waving your hands around. Just gonna assume that was similar, to you. 

[00:10:43] Matt: True. Yeah. 

[00:10:44] Jay: how do you. Deal with it now. Like, is, are you Mavric?

Is Mavric you, are you kind of aware that like, you know, there's this like networking kind of like version of Matt that everybody sees online that needs to kind of promote a certain way and that has to support the way that the business that, like how do you think a personal brand, like when you're out there posting stuff or when you're, you're on social media or you're at an event, you know, at oh 1, 1 1 or whatever it is, how, how are you trying to kind of either differentiate.

Matt from Mavric or make them the same thing, if that makes any sense.

[00:11:18] Matt: No, it makes total sense. And it's, I guess in one word, how do I approach it? It's uncomfortable.

It's very uncomfortable. one, you know, something that I tell people that I first meet, especially like prospects. I'm not a salesperson. I feel like. If you're gonna be the lead, there's an element of, you know, you said showmanship, there's sales associated with all of this. I'm an engineer. Like I've been an engineer for over 20 years. Like, that's the way I think, and my approach to how I think about my personal brand and what that means to, me. Specifically, or me and Mavric, or Mavric specific, I honestly think about this in an engineering mindset. I try to break it down, I try to dissect it. I don't know if that's serving me or not, but that's, you know, I can't separate the way I think about things. It's funny, Mavric and Matt are very much the, it's a, like a symbiotic relationship. Absolutely. you know, if you are a Marvel comic book fan, it almost feels like Venom.

I'm attached to this suit of Mavric in waybut it's not how I actually want it to be. You know, as a, I think as any business owner. there's a threshold where you want the business to be able to kind of be independent of you. and, you know, when I Mavric, one of the things that, you know, we set out to do and I think have done successfully is to differentiate ourselves as a dev agency by saying, we're CTO led. Agency. And that isn't to mean that there isn't a CTO in any other dev agencies, but the idea of CTO LED is that, typically dev agencies will put butts in seats and, you know, you're, you are getting the engineering resource as your, as your, you know, The thing that you're adding to your team. And what we're adding is, you know, there's a CTO that comes along, whether they're dedicated as, you know, in a fractional capacity or just there as you know, advisor from time to time. and that's always been me. I have over the years found other CTOs, who help me. and you know, you've met some of them, and you know, they'll work in that capacity.

But I've thought over the years, like. I'll always be a bottleneck if it is, Mavric is always me. So how do I start to detach? How do I start to split the suit, the venom suit for myself?

and I'm still, that's still a challenge. I'm still trying to figure out how to do that successfully. I think the way that is morphed over time is less around CTO led being a specific individual and more around maybe a set of. documentation or reporting or really artifacts that come from, Hey, if I'm gonna hire this group of engineers to either be a part of my team or deliver on a project for me, how do I know that it's working? How do I know that I'm getting the best value? How do I know that they're doing the right things or that we're solving the right problems? And the way that A CTO would think about these things, like how do we deliver that? Without having to attach a CTO.

So that means how do we embody some of that within the people that are on our team and train them up to think in a certain way. which I would argue is definitely not a way that most outsourced teams think. but also is there a level of touch and handholding that we could still offer at a scalable way or in a scalable way? and so. I'm still trying to figure that out right now. Right now we're still very connected. this year I'm hoping to tease apart a little bit more.

and you know how that shows up for networking events and me like, I don't know.

I just try to be my authentic self. know, part of being Mavric is I'm not trying to actively sell you on something. I actually, Don't take on more contracts or fire more customers that are not the right fit for what we want to do. 'cause I don't want to just be, I'm not looking just to take your money. to put it bluntly, like I could very much try to sell you on, Hey, let's put these people in that seat, because that's most profitable to me, but I actually prefer to solve your real problems. And I think that just starts with being genuine and authentic around, I like to solve problems. I'm an engineer first, and so let's think about these, you know, type of problems or whatever you're facing from that perspective.

And if we're a good fit. Or if I can help you in any way, then great. And so I think that's, I think I, again, that comes back to also that concept of fairness. if I'm being fair to myself and I'm being fair to you, like that's where authenticity comes through.

[00:16:02] Jay: Love it. no, that makes a lot of sense. Well, let's, let's switch gears a little bit, kind of actually in the same vein, but you kinda, you kinda explained how sales and, and men just call it lead generation marketing, whatever you wanna call it, it works today. you mentioned kind of wanting to, you know, decouple yourself from some of those activities.

what, and you know, obviously without giving away the secret sauce or the, you know, the, the top secret plans for 26, but how do you plan on. Attacking that in 26. 'cause that is something that, you know, number one, I think business coaches exist because people don't know that EAs exist and then like they're like, oh shit, I could have somebody do all my email.

Like, that's great. Like it's great and like that, like business coaches exist in my head. Number one, the most successful one is like that zero to one delegation kind of path, right? Where it's like just the super low hanging fruit, the shit that bothers you all day. Scheduling, emailing, you know, messaging, LinkedIn, like all of the shit that's just like there all the time.

How, what are your plans for 26 to kind of start to build either a sales or marketing engine that's not directly tied to your face? Which I do, by the way? Slightly disagree. I think unless you're Comcast, which I don't know that you and I are ever gonna be to that level or, you know, Mackenzie or whoever, I don't know that.

You being the face is the bottleneck that maybe you think it is right now. Right? Because if you have systems in place that are generating leads while you're still the face, as long as you're not the one that's like completely responsible for every single intake or lead into the company, you can still be the guy and be the face and be the, you know, be the, People wanna work with people. I mean, you hear it all the time. It's a true statement. Like people do want people work with Mavric because they like you, right? And like that doesn't ever have to change. You just may have to change the way that you scale those interactions, right? Where you're just doing discoveries, you know, you're doing five discoveries a week and like that's all you do.

And you've got a team that does all this other stuff. So I would argue as a nice, as of a guy as you are and kind of a natural. People, person and kind of people. I feel like people are kind of drawn to just whatever energy you have. And I just kind of saw that at that conference. 'cause people like to be around you.

You're a comfortable guy. Like to kind of feel comfortable sitting in the same space. you know, I think that doesn't go away. I think that's still your superpower, right? That's the one that disarms the potential prospect to go like, oh, let me, let me, he seems like a nice guy. Lemme talk to him. Right?

Like that.

[00:18:28] Matt: Yeah. 

[00:18:28] Jay: I feel like some people want to get away from. But it's not even a real problem, right? Like, nobody's gonna go, oh, this is mad in this company. Or like, kind of the same thing, like, what the fuck's going on here? Like, I don't dunno, like, I feel like you gotta take advantage of, you know, just your, your persona and your personality and the way that you think.

So anyway, you came on this show for unsolicited advice and you just got them, so you're welcome for that. but for 26, what are we thinking, man? Like, what, what are some of the things that you wanna start doing to get out from under being the only sales engine?

[00:18:58] Matt: I, and I'll, I appreciate the one that, the kind words, but also the advice there. I think to put it more concretely when I mean about separating myself is that I actually don't have a problem being that first intake. It's more that I am the first intake all the way through and into the engagement

in most cases. And so what I really want to tease apart is, is these downstream, aspects. So the stuff that we're doing this year is, you know, I spent, I spent last year, the 2025 has really been kind of focused in two areas. One, um, obviously AI's. I won't say disrupting, but it's impacting our industry in a lot of ways.

And so one for me is really understanding how that is,and how we can leverage it and what are the best ways that we stay on top of what's happening. but two, um, how do we start putting together some of those systems? So, how do I, you know. I hired EA for the first time. and you know, I started to define some of these processes that are happening kind of downstream. And so, this year is really okay, now that we've got some of those defined and we've battle tested them a little bit,to get them a bit more mature, how do I now start delegating some of that to other people to do? And so that's really the focus this year in 26. And that'll really tease me out of, you know, some of those downstream pieces. and to be honest, if I can also get, um. Diversity in some of the intake also. So if I can find someone who also does some of the beginning pieces, then I can really test, is it just me? Are people drawn to Mavric because it's just me and like they're coming through a networking event and a conversation that we had or someone that knows us, or knows me, to is there something about the business or our reputation? outside of me, it stands on its own that people are drawn to or the offer that people are drawn to. And so I'd love to get to a place where, you know, the service we offer stands for itself and has its own reputation independent of me. So I'd love to get to that place. I don't mind being the face. So being the face of that is actually something to be incredibly proud

of.but I want to get to a place where the service itself can sell itself and, you know, someone can sell it for me.

Um. So that feels like something that can scale.

and if it can't, and if it really is like me, well then there's two things that tell me. Like, one, I have a lifestyle business still, but two, you know, there's a problem, there's a series of problems that I have to solve internally.

Like I need to get, I know I'll be successful if I'm there. Like for instance, We for the longest time, didn't really have a website. funny story, we had, just a website that was an input box for email alone. I think it was just a logo in the middle and then an email input box. And that was the only thing. And I remember being on a prospect call with, A CEO and he was looking to have their website built and he just comes to me and he is like, man, I'm gonna be really honest with you. Why the hell would I hire you guys to build our website when your website's shit? Like, that's a really fair point. but what I, had always, you know, anchored to, and the reason why is why I like that is that I always said, told myself if we're doing a good job or we're succeeding, if we don't need a market, if we keep getting business from word of mouth, from people, from customers who are recommending us to friends, family, whomever, and their network to work with us because we're doing that good of a job. That carried us for like seven years. Like I only put up a website in the state that it's in like a year, maybe a year and a half ago. so, and we only did that because we're like, okay, let's get to the place where we get to maybe a little bit better predictability in our business development.

[00:23:03] Jay: Can we do something where it's not purely networking? I had a similar experience. One of my early prospects looked at my. Like social proof. I didn't have any logos with anybody else. And we were on the call and he goes, dude, why would I work with you guys? Like, who, who the fuck is working with you guys? You don't even have anybody on your website.

And I'm like, I like, we have worked to a lot of people that's just not on there. So like, but I have that. So yes, that's a, and of course that drives a change, right? You're like, oh shit. Like now I look like a fucking idiot. I have to go fix this problem. All right. God, I feel like we talk forever. I've, let's one more thing, Apso, tell me what it is and tell me how you're not gonna, make your main services business go outta business by supporting a product.

Like I see so many service-based, companies try to do what, how are you guys gonna handle this in a responsible way so that it doesn't suck your. Revenue and or all your attention off to something else? Or is it, is this gonna be the new thing? Tell me about what Apso is. Tell me how you're balancing it.

And I mean that from more of a, you know, a, a place of love of who's somebody who's tried to run several things at one time. And I'm always like, every time I was doing the other thing, I'm like, why am I not doing the main thing? Like, that's what I need to be doing. But like, how are you viewing Apso? What is it?

And kind of how are you gonna balance that with your, your agency?

[00:24:14] Matt: Yeah, so, you know, we're a software development agency that builds SaaS products. Probably, you know, I don't know, 2, 3, 4 times a year we're building something new from scratch, like full on SaaS applications, um, and mobile applications. and working on dozens of other ones. Youthat maybe have already come along the way and need some refactoring. And so we're always on the forefront of, okay, well what's the fastest way to get from zero to one? so we look at services like Firebase and recently Super Base and these things. and I can remember, I think it was about four or five years ago working on a mobile app. we use Firebase. it's great. Get started really quickly, do simple things, but man, the moment you start getting into something more complex, it just falls apart. Just the data structures are really wonky and it's just not great, not super, scalable in that way. so around the same time that. Super base started thinking the same thing. we started thinking, okay, well there's gotta be a better way to build a database and build the API infrastructure in front of it, really quickly and cheaply. And so we started just tinkering internally around some scripts and things that will just quickly spawn these things up. Super base came out, similar type of focus, being Postgres driven as opposed to a NoSQL driven, interface. but we look at superb base as just, you know, Firebase 2.0. It's like more or less the same offering. It's this full suite, which is valuable. don't get me wrong, they do a great job at doing that. but you get locked into their system no differently than Firebase. so what we're aiming to do with Apso is we're building, a backend platform. in a API builder in a database builder. But we're building it for small businesses, enterprise businesses, people who wanna own their own code, and not be locked into something. We're building it for them and we're building it in a way where it can scale in the same type of patterns. and so you go into our system, you can say, yeah, I want to build. Also it's prompt driven. so you can go hand write anything, but you can also start with here's the type of system I'm building, and it will go and scaffold out the whole database and database model. And you can talk with our ai, assistant to get your data model exactly how you want it. Once you have it how you want it, it'll scaffold out all your crud, APIs. And if you want something beyond just CRUD functionality, you can talk to the coding agent on that and everything. The difference between that, and I'd say like a lovable or replicate or these other kind of vibe coded tools. We have a, we have guardrails. We know how an API and a database are supposed to be set and we bake those guardrails in, so it helps the.

A person who's maybe a front end engineer who knows that they need to go build a database or build their APIs, they would otherwise go be doing it by scratch, from scratch in, in superb base or firebase and all these things. and. Want to do it effectively, but they can do it as effectively or efficiently, and they can own all the code and they don't need to know all the ins and outs.

It's gonna guide them through it. So we built it and to answer your question, we built it mainly for ourselves. We built it to start with to say, Hey, we're building these things over and over again. How do we gain better margins? How do we gain better, you know, consistency across all of our customers? so we built it for us and we figured if we're gonna build it for us. You know, taking a page outta Elon Musk's book, you know, we're gonna vertically integrate this tool, why not offer it to the public and see if someone wants to buy it. So that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna see if anybody's interested, we're launching it,in a couple weeks, to open for people to come, go in and sign up for the, um, trial, uh, today@oApso.ai. and, you know, we're hoping that it becomes something that. Becomes a community driven, thing. It is not solely us. We've open sourced the CLI, tool in the SDK, the platform is a interface that anyone can go in and build on. and so to, I don't know, I don't know the answer to your question around how are we gonna balance it. but you know, we have resources. So if it, in theory, if it does start to take off and we have success with it. And people are building lots of things. You know, we're also building lots of things with it. So we have resources internally that can answer questions from a customer support, angle.

And if we need to scale that up, you know, we can do that. We have a pretty robust hiring and recruitment engine for our own, like core business. So it feels like an extension of what we're doing naturally. I think maybe where a lot of other. Service agencies go into, product debt elsewhere is when they pick something or try to go after a product that is just fully ancillary to their core business. This feels very embedded in what we naturally do. so it doesn't feel like something that would take our attention away from what we already do and more if nothing else, it enhances what we already do.

[00:29:27] Jay: Yeah, that makes sense. That's, that is different. That is different. I mean, a lot of times I'll see like a staffing agency build a, you know, a platform for staffing agencies and I'm like, that's cool, but like. Unless it gains you so much efficiency and like you use it and it's better than any tool, you can just go buy off the shelf.

Then you just wasted a shit load of time going and building some production grade thing that you don't even know. If the tam exists, if it's like the right fit, like all the stuff that you know, you need to do, people like to assume a lot of times because they run an agency, that they can build a product that other people are gonna, like.

Now you guys built a dev tool, which I think is a little bit different than like some sort of consumer grade platform, even a B2B platform that people, you know, pick up and, and start to use. So I, I, I, I can, I can see how that would be. Less taxing kind of on the day to day. And like even on your, your, like, it's really more the mental side, you know, it's like you're, you have to index on two different products, you know, one being your service agency product and then your other being like, whatever your actual product is.

Like, that's a lot of mental cycles to like constantly go through. But if you have one that's, that's closest to what you guys are doing, I think that, that, that answers that question. I have one more question. One more question. You ready? 

[00:30:38] Matt: Yeah, 

[00:30:38] Jay: this, I ask this to everybody. It's the mystery question and I,

[00:30:42] Matt: I don't think the Eagles are gonna win the Super Bowl this year.

[00:30:45] Jay: then you're wrong.

no, my question, if only, my question is if you could do anything on Earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be? Non-business related. By the way, I don't want this about Mavric or about whatever. I want this Matt being Matt.

[00:31:01] Matt: Is this just a hobby? Is this

[00:31:02] Jay: Anything. Anything on anything, anything on Earth that you are afraid to do today?

If you could do anything on Earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, typically due to fear, what would it be?

[00:31:15] Matt: This doesn't have to be some altruistic answer, by the way. This is

No, no, no. This, would be completely self-serving.

I would probably open a restaurant.

[00:31:22] Jay: There you go. That's a great one. Because that would be awful to do in real life. Like 

[00:31:25] Matt: Oh, yeah. 

[00:31:26] Jay: without the guarantee of non failure. That would be awful. But that sounds fun. I do. I think it would be 

[00:31:31] Matt: Yeah.I mean, I genuinely love serving people, like my wife and I host a lot, and I love cooking, so, I think in restaurants fail so often, more often than business, so, you know, than regular businesses. So, the, yeah, I think, and I'd probably, it'd probably be either like, a pizza restaurant, you know, I'm fascinated about getting, like, getting the pizza dough down,

[00:31:55] Jay: and Eric, of course, Eric's got that under control.

[00:31:58] Matt: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. E

[00:32:01] Jay: He's got that under control right now.

[00:32:03] Matt: He's got the dough recipe. and now he's selling it in San Diego, but he got the idea of selling it in San Diego from your

[00:32:09] Jay: Good. Yeah, I, I figured there was a little carry over 

[00:32:11] Matt: Although I take no credit for the,for the name he gave his

[00:32:15] Jay: It's pretty good too. I think it's great. I think it's great.

do you know the name of Yes, I do. I, yes, I was, over the holidays was, was talking to him about some videos for his, his balls. so it was good. It was a great, it was a great conversation. well, Matt, look, three balls in a box. I mean, what a, great name, honestly.

I mean, I, am, I'm going to order some, all right, well, Eagles are gonna win the Super Bowl. You're gonna delegate a bunch of stuff in 26, and then we're gonna probably sync back up maybe in a year. And I'd love to hear how you're doing with all that stuff. I mean, dude, you are a, genuinely nice human being, right?

And I love nice human beings and I think, the more of those that we have in our day-to-day life, the better life is. So thank you, for being on today. Thanks for doing your first podcast. You did great. if people heard something today that they wanna reach out to you directly about, to talk more about, how do they do that?

[00:33:07] Matt: you can find me on LinkedIn or email me matt@Mavrictech.com. I'm always open to having conversation with anybody. Love to try to help solve anybody's problems.

[00:33:17] Jay: Beautiful problem solver, Matt. Alright buddy. Hey, have a good rest of your week. Good luck on the Apso launch and we'll talk to you again soon. All right, buddy. Thank you.

[00:33:25] Matt: Appreciate Jay.

[00:33:26] Jay: See you Matt. Later. 

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