[00:00:28] Jay: Hi, everyone. Welcome to First Customer podcast. My name's Jay Aigner.

Today, I'm lucky enough to be joined, and I say lucky enough and mean it today, Nick Halverson, co-founder and CTO of Hirebus. Hiring is hard. Hirebus makes it easier. Nick, the most fit man I know. How are you, brother? 

[00:00:45] Nick: Well, I'm doing good. A little less fit since Thanksgiving. 

[00:00:49] Jay: Oh, aren't we all? 

[00:00:51] Nick: I'm doing good.

I'm just honored to be on your podcast.

[00:00:54] Jay: I'm not fit in anything.

[00:00:55] Nick: Jay's the, one of the most, like, generous, like, uplifting, energy-giving people that I know. Oh. And I'm just honored for this just to be here. 

[00:01:02] Jay: Oh, come on, buddy. I appreciate it. You're too ki- you're too kind. You're the nicest guy I know.

I was gonna say, I don't fit in anything after Thanksgiving, that's for sure, so. all right, let's kick it off. Where did you grow up, and did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur later in life? 

[00:01:16] Nick: Yeah, I grew up in, Ogden area, Salt Lake, or about an hour north of Salt Lake City, Utah. And wanting to be an entrepreneur, I guess there were a lot of factors.

I guess I've always kinda been creative. I've always been kind of... I've wanted, I've had that interest, I guess, my whole life. I've shared with you, I got wayward, you know, in my teen years, got involved in drugs and alcohol, in and out of chaos, right? I guess I've lived in a lot of chaos and had to be crafty and have sought...

I guess I, I met some entrepreneurial people, you could say, right? And I was kinda drawn to that, and a lot of the entrepreneurial people that I was drawn to at the time were also, like, in that, kinda lifestyle, which was not great. And it's, I guess it's hard to say exactly what, but I guess just from a young age, my parents were very...

They were very, like not liberating is not the right word, but like empowering with me to be like my own free thinker, like giving me space to do my own thing and just be curious- 

[00:02:15] Jay: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:02:15] Nick: and 

that type of stuff. So I have a- 

[00:02:17] Jay: Beautiful ... 

[00:02:18] Nick: lot of gratitude for them, you know? Like, and as now that I'm my parents' age, you know, when I was just little and I looked up to them and thought they knew everything, and I realized I don't know anything.

And I have ChatGPT. My parents didn't have ChatGPT, so they really, like, I just admire them, you 

know? 

[00:02:31] Jay: Oh, I don't know how they figured it out. And yes, our parents were normal human beings and, as you get older and have, especially as you have children, you realize you really have no idea and, there's no life handbook.

 what is the scene in Salt Lake, in, Utah, and, you know, for entrepreneurs and for tech stuff? And, it, what's the current kind of vibe there? Is there a bunch of startups there? Has it kind of been established for a while? Like, what is the scene there? 

[00:02:55] Nick: Well, where I live just south of Salt Lake City in Lehi, and like the Utah County Provo area, it's called Silicon Valley.

Not Silicon Valley. It's called Silicon Slopes. 

[00:03:08] Jay: Okay. 

[00:03:08] Nick: That's like the nickname that's been given to this area. Right. So like a lot of tech, like, Lehi, where I live, that's why I moved here actually about almost three years ago, was for the tech scene. 

And 

like, it used to just be like, I don't know, 15 years ago.

Was it 15 years ago Adobe moved here? Yeah. And after Adobe moved here, it was just, farm, just empty farmland. And now just like big corporate, you know, software companies have just, like just big buildings have just popped up everywhere. Now this place is like flooded. It's one of the fast, fastest growing cities in America.

Like- my grandma told me. She saw in the newspaper like a year ago or something. I don't know. 

[00:03:45] Jay: I guess they still have newspapers in Salt Lake. And so that's an- 

[00:03:50] Nick: Yeah, that's right. 

[00:03:51] Jay: All 

right. so, tell me about your first company. Was it Hirebus? Is that where you started? Is that where your first company you founded?

[00:03:58] Nick: Oh, well, first actual company that was, that made any success, yes. 

[00:04:02] Jay: Okay. 

[00:04:03] Nick: I've tried other things. I've tried other things. 

[00:04:05] Jay: Like what? That's what I wanna hear. What did you try? How did you fail? Let me hear it. 

[00:04:08] Nick: I tried selling painted pine cones once. 

[00:04:11] Jay: Okay. 

[00:04:11] Nick: So that was interesting. Like, I tried getting into, drop shipping.

So I actually had a process where I, like, made painted pine cones. Like, just, like, set, like, I had... My grandpa had a whole ton of pine cones that I'd clean up in the fall, and I thought, "Well, someone might want some painted pine cones." I, like, did a little bit of market research. I painted them. I think I made, I think I made 20 bucks.

[00:04:33] Jay: Okay. 

[00:04:34] Nick: Like, and I think- 

[00:04:35] Jay: You tried ... 

[00:04:35] Nick: only because I had my little brother go knock on someone's door and they felt sorry for him. 

[00:04:41] Jay: I mean, you gotta make the sale. You gotta make the sale somehow. 

[00:04:44] Nick: I tried drop shipping, like, just some, like, chakra healing stuff on- 

[00:04:49] Jay: Okay ... 

[00:04:50] Nick: on Facebook, and I, like, looked up... I did a, figured out all the drop shipping stuff with Alibaba, AliExpress.

I found a niche with chakra healing, and I, like, did some targeted ads. I made a Facebook page. I somehow got it to, like, 30,000 likes or 30,000 followers, and I made some content that got some views. And I was about ready to sell it, and it just didn't feel right- ... because I don't know anything about chakra healing, and, like, the people that I'm targeting, I think they do, and it just felt wrong.

So- 

[00:05:22] Jay: Okay ... 

[00:05:22] Nick: or, like, I... Yeah. And, 

[00:05:24] Jay: So, 

yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna say, about that specifically, what felt wrong about it? That you weren't a subject matter expert in the thing that you were selling? 

[00:05:32] Nick: Well, I wasn't a subject matter expert, and, like, it was, like, a religious thing- 

... 

too, and, like, people were, like, messaging in my Facebook, like, asking for, like...

It just, it was just wrong. 

[00:05:45] Jay: Okay. 

[00:05:45] Nick: You know? It just felt wrong to me. 

[00:05:47] Jay: Okay. Now, was that the last one before Hirebus?

[00:05:53] Nick: I think so. Well, no, the last one before Hirebus, if you could call them entrepreneurial. So I got involved with the wrong crowd, and I mean, you can maybe cut this out if you need to, but like I've... I mean, I've done, I've done all my confessions I need to, you know? But like, I met somebody who was extremely gifted at selling cocaine, and I like essentially partnered with him, and it was like a lot of high stakes, high risk stuff-

[00:06:20] Jay: Okay

[00:06:20] Nick: that was, going on. And I guess I've always kind of been a risk taker in that sense, and I think that was... It was interesting. The strategy was, for me, was do whatever it takes to get more cocaine because the billion-dollar idea will come from that next eight ball of cocaine. 

[00:06:38] Jay: Okay. I mean, look, I gotta be honest.

You're the first person, that has ever,successfully helped run a cocaine, business that has been on the show, so thank you for... I like that we have something. You know, I've heard of the, heard the weed sales in college. I've never quite heard them graduate to cocaine sales, afterward. Well- But, I mean, you know, it, 

[00:06:56] Nick: I 

don't wanna glorify it though.

That's the thing. I- It was a sad lifestyle, and it was... I was lost, and we were miserable, and we were living in the trap house, and I was sleeping on the floor. I hated myself, and life was miserable, and like the only thing I had to look forward to was fiending for that next, finding that next piece of cheese.

[00:07:16] Jay: Yep. Yep. 

[00:07:16] Nick: You know? And I, my family hated me. I lost all my opportunities. So I don't wanna, I definitely want, don't wanna glorify this. Like- 

[00:07:22] Jay: Yeah, no, 

it's, yeah ... 

[00:07:23] Nick: I was, lost. Well- And I believe that like it was divine intervention and like willingness to seek something higher, a higher power that has helped me get out of that over the last seven years.

So- 

[00:07:34] Jay: Good for you, man. 

[00:07:35] Nick: Sorry to interrupt you. I just want, I wanna clarify 

that- 

[00:07:37] Jay: No. no. You're not... This is your story. first of all, thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of people would be scared to say that, you know, in public or, you know, wherever. So you've told me that story and, I mean, look, you're on the show now because, you got your shit together.

You're an incredible person. You started a really cool company, and that's why we're here today. So, I'm definitely not gonna glorify it, but I think it's relatable. You know, maybe not exactly for everybody, but like, it's relatable. We've all been in shitty places and not been who we wanna be, and that's part of kind of this journey that we get on, right?

And that's, I hear, I... You're not the first person that's in recovery that's been on the show and, you know, if it took all that to kind of produce the guy that I, you know, met a month or two ago and have become really good friends with, you know, then I'm glad it happened, right? I mean, you're better for it on this side.

So let's get, out of illicit substances and into AI-based recruiting sales. Let's see how do we get there? That's what I wanna know. How do we get, how do we get to Hirebus from... You know, maybe fast-forward a little bit, but like- Okay ... where did the genesis of Hirebus come from? 

[00:08:42] Nick: So Hirebus had started before me.

It was an idea that started before me, and I was brought on as a co-founder to get it off the ground from a prototype to a, like a real SaaS business. 

[00:08:55] Jay: Sure. 

[00:08:55] Nick: So I had, I was lucky enough that I had, was able to get into software and get a job, and then I just climbed the ladder, got a job somewhere else, got invited to this.

I took naturally to software. It was just thankfully, like I, was lucky that I, had like a natural ability for it, I suppose. And at one point, I was managing a couple of teams at a couple of small businesses And at managing their software teams and heading their software. And I met my now co-founder, Brandon.

He was... He had built and run several successful, home service businesses, and he built and was in the process of selling his, coaching business for hiring, or sorry, for home services. And one of the key pain points that he saw repeatedly, was hiring. Like hi- especially these home services, like their ability to serve their customers depends on hiring.

And hiring is just a painful point for them. And most of these small business owners, particularly in the trades, window cleaning companies, pressure washing companies, house cleaning companies, you know, HVAC, et cetera, they struggle at hiring. It's overwhelming. And it's like you try to post to a job on Indeed, you get a whole ton of applicants.

How do you filter through them? and you can try to create your own system. It's really difficult. You can hire somebody to do that for you, and you still run the risk of getting a bad hire. And one bad hire in these, you know, 1 million to 5 million, or smaller home ser- SMB, you know, businesses, that's...

It's devastating to get that hire wrong or to have turnover, et cetera. And so that was like the common theme that Brandon saw. 

And so he came across, a company that he was able to partner with that had an incredible behavioral analysis tool, proprietary, and they were able to partner together and was able to white label this little tool that was used for like coaching at enterprise and hiring at enterprise, and give it to small businesses and use it as like a screening tool, like a grading tool, some way to give sense and predictability to your hiring with screening candidates.

[00:11:06] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:06] Nick: And the prototype was proven out. He used his following, people that he knew, and was able to get some customers, and got a fair number of customers just with that prototype. It was, but it was like not SaaS ready. It was like just, you know, hacked together. It wasn't from a SaaS company. It was just, you know, like an old PHP- 

[00:11:24] Jay: Yeah

[00:11:24] Nick: you know, something you'd see from the early 2000s, late '90s. 

[00:11:28] Jay: Sure. 

[00:11:28] Nick: But, it worked and it proved out a point. So he and I met At Cancun. Like technically we've met before, but we really got to know each other Cancun at like where this mastermind group where the two businesses that I was working with and him were also there, you know, different verticals in the home services, you know, masterminding together how to build each other's businesses, et cetera.

I met him, he was looking to get this Hirebus thing started and had tried some routes paying some contractors, but it wasn't going the direction that he had. He never built a software company before, but he built other types of companies. And so, but I had built software teams and one thing led to another, and now here we are.

He invited me to be a co-founder. In the process of getting acquired from Housecall Pro, so his business was being acquired-- his coaching business was being acquired by Housecall Pro. The like kind of manager over that, Dan, they made a good relationship during that process. And so then he invited Dan. So Dan...

I left where I was at, Dan left Housecall Pro to join in and start this Hirebus thing and then get it really started. And that was, beginning of 2023. 

[00:12:36] Jay: Okay. and who was the first real customer after you guys figured out the platform? 

[00:12:41] Nick: The first real customer, it came, I think when we did our first big launch.

We went to the Huge Convention in Tennessee August of that year. So we took the little bit of investment that we had, we built version two of the software platform, and we rushed to-- And we built it out, and we went to a trade show called the Huge Convention in Tennessee, and I think that's where we got our first customer there.

[00:13:11] Jay: Beautiful. 

[00:13:12] Nick: And- 

[00:13:12] Jay: why did you guys go to that conference? 

[00:13:15] Nick: trade shows, as far as I understand, that's like a great place to... That's where vendors go for the home services. Like there are trade shows all over the place for home service business owners with all types of services that help them build their businesses, coaching tools, CRMs, us, hiring tools, et cetera.

And we were able to, and have been able to kind of position ourselves in that niche as the top hiring tool, or at least that we believe the top hiring tool. And- So your question, why did we go to that conference specifically? Well, it's called a huge convention for a reason. It's like really well-known.

It's like a huge convention in Tennessee. So we really needed to make a splash and get that one right. and it was pretty good. We ended up doing so well that, with our platform, with our rebuild, so the original company that we, kind of copied their original prototype or their little software- 

[00:14:16] Jay: Mm-hmm

[00:14:16] Nick: and built a new software around, we, a couple months later, showed to them what we had done. They were like an investor for us, and they were so impressed that they actually now invested more for us to now build for them a version just for them. And that was able to like extend our runway pretty significantly.

We had a relationship with them for a couple years after that. And- 

[00:14:37] Jay: Beautiful. 

[00:14:38] Nick: Yeah. 

[00:14:38] Jay: Love that. I mean, you gotta go where your customers are. Yeah. And it sounds like you guys did. that's the name of the game, right? It's, 

Yeah ... 

solving a real problem for people who have a really tough pain point, but then being in a place where they are.

so tell me,what type of company was it? Was it a home services company that started using you guys first, the first customer? 

[00:14:58] Nick: I believe so. 

[00:15:00] Jay: Okay. 

[00:15:00] Nick: I'd 

have to go through the list. So I'm more on the tech side, and I'm involved with these questions. Our... Most of our cu- first customers have been pressure washing companies, window cleaning companies.

in fact, I think Brandon himself, you could say was our first customer because he was using it for his company, Wise Coatings. 

[00:15:19] Jay: Sure. 

[00:15:19] Nick: So you could say that Wise Coatings was our first customer- 

[00:15:21] Jay: Okay ... 

[00:15:22] Nick: because he has many locations of Wise Coatings. It's a floor coatings company. a couple of other, of our first customers, there was some variety.

There was, a virtual assistant company that... We have a couple actually, like virtual assistants in the Philippines or- 

[00:15:37] Jay: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:15:38] Nick: or in the US-based. some healthcare, some legal, but the vast majority have been like pressure washing, painting, HVAC, plumbing, and most of those were our first customers.

[00:15:50] Jay: And what's the... I mean, you kinda men- 

[00:15:51] Nick: Or 

enterprise. Sorry. 

[00:15:53] Jay: No, I was gonna say, you kinda mentioned the value, that you guys provide to those sort of companies. like if I, if someone were to ask your customer today, "Why are you guys using Hirebus?" Like, what would their answer be? 

[00:16:05] Nick: Because Hirebus gets results, and it saves me.

If I'm a business owner, if I'm talking in their shoes and, you know, relaying some of the anecdotes that they've shared with us and success stories they've shared with us, it's trans- for me as a hiring manager and owner, it's transformed my business and it's transformed my hiring. I don't need to stress and think about hiring.

I don't need to go hire some expensive firm, right? I'm like transforming my business. I'm getting a, I'm getting a transformational hire like, like within a week or two of signing up that's just totally- 

[00:16:36] Jay: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:16:36] Nick: changed my business. So it's like those transformational hires are what get people sold on Hirebus, ones that change their business, you know?

[00:16:45] Jay: Yeah. That makes sense. how do you guys split the responsibilities? Is it kind of like straight down the middle? Like you, you know, you guy- you do the tech side of things, Brandon and I think it's a Dan, you guys all kinda have your own function, and is that kinda natural as you guys started working together?

[00:17:00] Nick: Yeah, it's kinda natural. Brandon's CEO, Dan COO, and me technology CTO. And I have increasingly been over product as well, especially once we did our- version three this year is completely built with vibe coding this year. And we actually pivoted early on to, integrate to like have a, like an entire done for you funnel.

And we integrated some tools maybe you've heard of GoHighLevel, but some like automation tools that we kind of stitched together- 

[00:17:33] Jay: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:17:34] Nick: you know, with our assistant in the backend. And now we've gotten rid of those completely and completely rebuilt AI first this year version three completely vibe coded AI at the center, AI everything, AI phone interviewing, AI analysis of resume, AI everything, AI follow up with the customers, AI follow up with the candidates to complete their actions that they need to do to finish their application.

and now I'm tangenting. Sorry. 

[00:17:59] Jay: No, you're 

good. You're good. No. so I'm gonna ask you a question, and I gotta... You know, I'm gonna have to ask you this question. If you're vibe coding everything, how are you testing it? Oh. Is it different to test a vibe coded app, you know, than it is your traditional kind of sit down and build it out, you know, line by line?

Like, how do you guys handle... I mean, not even talking QA, just like validation that it's doing what it's supposed to be doing in a consistent way, right? 'Cause I mean, I think a lot of vibe coded stuff can work, a couple times or once or whatever, and then you're like, "Wait, this isn't even doing what I thought it was gonna do."

how do you guys validate a production grade vibe coded application? 

[00:18:40] Nick: Well, I believe there's only one way to know if a software works, and that's to test it. And you can either test it manually by hand, or you can test it with automation. And now there's like an emerging hybrid where you can use AI agents to test it.

And so increasingly more and more testing is being done by AI agents using tools like actually go like end-to-end testing the way I would. Instead of me being the first to test it, a feature that I build, I give an agent access to a browser and to the database, go click around, go work on it.

it's like it's the same principles of delegating to people that I'm learning with delegating to AI agents, and the same principles of stable software apply. So having automated tests is tremendous. we still have a manual QA process. We when I vibe code, I don't just like pure vibe code.

It's like vibe engineering. Like we have unit tests on everything that we build. We have integration tests. We have manual human QA tests, and increasingly more we're having AI agents do manual QA tests. And they're getting smarter and smarter as the agents can work for longer. And my theory and belief is that the vast majority of manual testing sooner than we think is gonna be done by AI agents 

[00:19:58] Jay: All right.

Well, we might have to have a separate podcast where you and I can debate the timeline of that. But I don't disagree that we can definitely, we'll definitely be getting to a world sooner than later, where automating a lot of these mundane tasks is gonna be much easier than it's ever been, right?

And you can split that however you want. you know, I tend to believe, and I'm very biased, that there needs to be a human somewhere in the process, and whether that's a QA person that's building some of these agents because they really do know how to test these things or, you know- Yeah ... some human interjected along the way because some things are just too complex for, to spin up a, an automation for.

But I definitely agree there is a big wave coming, of automation in QA. 

[00:20:41] Nick: Can I add one more thing? 

[00:20:42] Jay: You can add whatever you want, buddy. This is your show. 

[00:20:44] Nick: Our QA guy is using AI just as much as we are. So like the amount of stuff to test that we're creating as it expands, his capability to test using AI is also expanding.

Is- 

[00:20:58] Jay: Yeah ... 

[00:20:58] Nick: he's al- as we're expanding using AI, he's also expanding. So like the... Still having like that human in the loop is still super important, like that human supervisor. I wouldn't just trust me to test all this and like, still having like a human head of QA is still critically valuable, and I think it's really valuable.

We're really blessed and lucky that we have one that's so savvy with AI that leverages it. 

[00:21:24] Jay: Well, I need to meet him or her, and we can talk. Because I love, I, I love that very much. All right. Let's get back to business stuff. you know, you mentioned, you know, all sorts of different types of business you guys work with.

if I had to say, "Hey, tell me your absolute ideal customer," who is it? Where do they work? What do they do? 

[00:21:48] Nick: It is a SMB home service business between 1 million and 5 million, annual revenue that is looking to hire and looking to grow and looking to grow fast through hiring. One that at least has a strong business already and has strong like company values.

It has a successful business that people would want to, you know, go work for. 

[00:22:13] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:16] Nick: They're just looking to hire and looking to grow. And our most successful happy clients are the ones that have grown really fast and just have their stuff in order who just are succeeding in their domain and they just need to hire more to keep up with it.

[00:22:30] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:30] Nick: And so we do have customers who've like made like 10 hires, 15 hires, 20, 25 hires and are just hiring all the time. 

[00:22:38] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:38] Nick: And 

it's just worked beautifully for them. 

[00:22:41] Jay: Love that. Beautiful. well, so you got three, you know, two co-founders, you and two other people. How does a CTO in that scenario deal with personal branding, right?

How do you... What is your public persona attached to the business, right? Like, what... is there a Nick Halverson that's, you know, promoting Hirebus and is kind of a face of the tech of the company? Is that something that has not been done yet? Do the other guys kind of... Are they out in front?

Like, who's the face of the Hirebus brand, and what do you think about your personal brand kind of tied to Hirebus, if that makes sense? 

[00:23:24] Nick: Yeah. Maybe this is where I can ask you what you think. I think the simple answer is that I should probably should be focusing on this more. I know you and I met at the Seven CTOs conference, and personal branding and marketing was a topic that was really hit on there.

To be honest, I haven't really been doing it that much. My personal brand has just been meeting people, meeting you, you know, just focusing on getting things done. I know that there's much more that I can do. You were counseling me on getting out of my introvert shell, you know. Thankfully, the other two guys are very much out there and doing- 

[00:24:01] Jay: Okay, 

good

[00:24:02] Nick: like, I mean, Brandon, he has a following. Like he's an influencer. He's doing conferences and webinars all the time. Dan is always like frequently getting like at least once or twice a month, at least once a month, going and getting asked to speak at a conference somewhere. 

[00:24:17] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:17] Nick: I'm 

curious what your thoughts are on what the CTO's strategy should be regarding that.

[00:24:27] Jay: It's a, it's a multi-layered question and a multi-layered answer. but to try to be succinct, I would just say, especially as a co-founder, you know, getting over any reservations about being public facing is probably pretty important. Because even, I mean, you could work at Hirebus and you guys could sell it in two years and you're off doing a new thing, or you run it for 20 years and you're still the Hirebus guy.

But the people I see the happiest, there's a personal brand to what they do as well, right? Like, I mean, I'm my own thing. Like I have my, I have QA company, I have the podcast, I have, you know, a big family, I have a bunch of stuff, but like I'm not necessarily the brand, but it kind of flows through me, which is, you know, something you could think about, right?

It's, Especially the tech, kind of piece you have and, you know, any AI stuff that's interesting. I mean, you're a voice in that space already. You know, I consider you one. If there was questions I would have, I'd probably come to you about some of it. So, yeah, I mean, I think just being genuine and being a little bit, Out of your comfort zone is always a good thing, right?

And it's people buy from people, and maybe they buy from their CEO or maybe they buy from whatever. But if they're thinking about the AI piece of this or the tech piece of this and like they see you out there, they go, "Oh shit, I wanna work with Nick. This guy's cool," right? I mean, that's, it's just another quiver, arrow in your quiver, right?

for sales and marketing, everything else. So I mean, I mean, look, you've already, like I said, you're already the most fit guy I know, so in person you're, you know, very, you know, you're like a guy that people gravitate to. And I just, again, very nice guy, to the point where, you know, the guy who did the public speaking talk at the conference like called you out at the end just like with your energy and how like you intently listen and stuff.

So anyway, I think all that stuff kinda contributes to a personal brand and just, you know, gotta be active and put yourself out there and, you know, you're a cool guy, man, and I, my only advice is just keep doubling down in, in yourself. And maybe that means posting some stuff on LinkedIn or getting on active on X or like what, you know, going to more conferences.

Whatever it is, just push yourself a little bit more to be out there because what's the worst thing that happens? Somebody like wants to work with you 'cause they think you're a cool person? Like l- I mean, there's nothing that like, you know. Whatever. Anyway, all right. This isn't about me. I don't want you to ask me any more questions.

That's it. No more questions for me. This is your podcast. This is your show. All right. I have, two more questions for you. 

[00:26:42] Nick: Very nice. 

[00:26:42] Jay: one is, what would you do tomorrow if you had to start Hirebus over square one? Same business, same concept, same everything. What would be step one tomorrow if even you and your co-founder sat down to start a business?

What would it be? Step one. 

[00:26:58] Nick: Well, maybe short term bias, but get myself out there more and do more of the personal brand stuff, right? Be more of a leader getting myself out there, like a thought leader, I think number one. Number two, instrument everything from the beginning, right? And I'm thinking of that more of like proactive building, strategic building to gain insights, data-driven.

So, like, more recently we've been just instrumenting everything, and I've been taking more of a product role and a strategy role and, like, the data's driving the strategy, the strategy's driving the data. Good data and bad data are driving the strategy. And I think that was something that I lacked, or I was in my...

When I was more immature, I just was, like, building a feature. "Okay, what's the next feature someone needs? Okay, this person had this issue, let's go build them that feature. This person asked for this thing, let's go build them that." And what this does is it just creates more tech debt, more stuff to maintain.

How many of these features are being used? We don't even know. How do we pinpoint where the value is? We don't even know. What are our key metrics? What do we think are our key metrics? And then, but do we have the data to find out that those actually aren't our key metrics, that maybe these are instead.

Maybe we need to pivot our business model because the data's suggesting this, right? And so, like, now, like, we are collecting data and I'm getting a more... I am, personally am getting a holistic vision and strategy of the business. I'm coming up with strategic ideas with what to do with customers, what to do with their onboarding experience, how to, like, how to get their feedback and get them in the loop to improve the outcomes.

how do I, how to more clearly segment our personas, how to segment our candidates. Like, it's a... I'm learning these marketing principles that Brandon has been so great at forever, are like the same things that are in engineering and I just had a disconnect. I just was over, over engineering.

So that's number two that I... I guess that's two and three. Number two, instrument everything data-driven from the beginning, and three, like, get involved with the holistic side of the business. 

[00:29:12] Jay: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:12] Nick: Everything instead of just the tech. 

[00:29:15] Jay: I love that. That's a great answer. That's a great answer. I never, nobody's ever said instrument everything from the start.

I love that. All right, final question. we're gonna have one more question. This is not business related. This is not, anything to do with, Hirebus. you also can't say, that you would do what you're doing right now. I'm removing that from the table.

You're the first person I'm banning that from. I've heard it too many times. If you could do anything on earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be? 

[00:29:43] Nick: If I could do anything on earth and I knew I couldn't fail

I wanna be a missionary 

[00:29:53] Jay: There you go 

[00:29:54] Nick: And go somewhere wherever I'm needed. 

[00:29:57] Jay: There you go. 

[00:29:58] Nick: Places 

I don't know. 

[00:30:00] Jay: See, and you can't fail in this scenario, dude. So congrats. You're a missionary, and you're traveling the world, and you're spreading the good word. Well, Nick, if anybody, heard something they liked today and wanna reach out to you directly, what is the best way to reach you?

[00:30:13] Nick: Well, LinkedIn, Nick Halverson. You can email me Nick@Hirebus. You can find me on Twitter. I'm kinda more hidden. I should probably become more... but I'm nick.ai, which is @nickhalverson9. You can see me there on Twitter as well. 

[00:30:27] Jay: Okay. All right. Well, link that stuff in the notes. and it's hirebus.com, I think.

Is that right? 

[00:30:33] Nick: Hirebus.com. That's right. 

[00:30:34] Jay: Hirebus.com. Nick, just one of my favorite people, and I genuinely mean that. happy holidays. you know, enjoy the weekend. so much good things coming up after this show is over, so thank you for helping me finish up my week. And, you're awesome, dude. Keep up the good work, and we'll catch up again soon, all right?

[00:30:51] Nick: Jay, you're amazing. Thank you. Appreciate you, bro. And, like, you've made this so easy. It's for my first podcast, like you've just been an incredible 

host. 

[00:30:57] Jay: I forgot to say it was your first. That's my favorite thing. Fuck. Oh, God. All right. I'll splice it back in later. 

[00:31:02] Nick: Like, there's no one 

else I would've wanted to do my first 

podcast with.

[00:31:05] Jay: Oh, come on, man. You're too... you're the sweetest guy I know. Be good. Have a great weekend, and we'll talk soon. Thank you, Nick. See you, buddy. 

[00:31:10] Nick: Thanks, Jay. 

You're 

amazing. 

[00:31:11] Jay: Later. Thank you 

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